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Negroponte Confirms Use of Waterboarding
It's no secret that after 9/11, the administration authorized the use of waterboarding, and that the technique was used on a number of detainees in 2002 and reportedly stopped in 2003. But the administration has never explicitly admitted that.
In fact, when Dick Cheney, seduced into loose talk by a friendly interviewer, confirmed that "a dunk in water is a no-brainer if it can save lives," the White House furiously backpedaled, and Tony Snow did his best to proclaim that "a dunk in water" had not been a reference to waterboarding, but just "a dunk in the water."
So John Negroponte is really letting the horse out of the barn here. In an interview with National Journal, the former director of national intelligence casually mentions the use of waterboarding:
Q: When we as a nation are still debating the morality and efficacy of "harsh" interrogation techniques that much of the world consider torture, and indefinite detainment that lies outside the rule of international law, can the United States really win the "war of ideas" that President Bush insists is crucial to this conflict?Negroponte: I get concerned that we're too retrospective and tend to look in the rearview mirror too often at things that happened four or even six years ago. We've taken steps to address the issue of interrogations, for instance, and waterboarding has not been used in years. It wasn't used when I was director of national intelligence, nor even for a few years before that. We've also taken significant steps to improve Guantanamo. People will tell you now that it is a world-class detention facility. But if you want to highlight and accent the negative, you can resurface these issues constantly to keep them alive. I would rather focus on what we need to do going forward.
Somehow I think that his upbeat, glass-is-half-full message will get lost here.
And expect for White House spokeswoman Dana Perino to do her best to put the horse back in the barn tomorrow.
Comments (34)
LiberalTarian wrote on January 28, 2008 6:42 PM:Huh. What did he have to say about the death squads?
Hap Haploid wrote on January 28, 2008 6:47 PM:"I get concerned that we're too retrospective and tend to look in the rearview mirror too often at things that happened four or even six years ago."
Or for that matter, twenty five years ago, when he ignored torture and murder in Central America for Reagan... Why dwell on the past?
Anonymous wrote on January 28, 2008 7:02 PM:Imagine if Hitler had said this about the Holocaust, had he survied the war: "I get concerned that we're too retrospective and tend to look in the rearview mirror too often at things that happened four or even six years ago".
Indeed, the US Constitution is something tha happend more than six years ago, explaining why the Congress won't look at it, nor the impeachable offensense.
Fact finding generally involves looking at the past. The oath of offcice, 5 USC 3331 a retrospecitve and prosective view at conduct; and what that prospectively should guide people for more than six years.
Louis wrote on January 28, 2008 7:06 PM:Has he also stopped beating his wife?
JW wrote on January 28, 2008 7:09 PM:"..When Saddam was captured in December 2003, the insurgency -- an insurgency he personally planned -- was destabilizing Iraq and killing Americans. Worse, Iraq's extensive caches of WMD could not be located and could've been passed on to or discovered by terrorists.
Every minute was critical. It was the perfect ticking-time bomb scenario. Saddam was a high value suspect who no doubt was in possession of information that could've saved American lives (and the worst mass murderer since Hitler). Yet here's the FBI, wringing their hands about "policy" and wasting months and months chatting away with this monster. They even gave him cookies on his birthday...".
Blue Texan wrote those good words over at FDL today.
It's a great question. I doubt the Shiites would have objected, so the "prisoner of a sovereign nation" excuse won't fly.
So why wasn't Sadaam "aggressively interrogated" by those who ballyhoo the effectiveness of such procedures?
Al in Austex wrote on January 28, 2008 7:30 PM:So Negroponte & crew slid thru the Iran Contra criminal charges unscathed & now look poised to do the same thing with the current criminal contretemps regarding this new "walk on the darkside ". The question in my mind is what will the Company do this time? Will the langley crew take another fall for a criminal administration ? Or will there have been lessons learned from the Church hearings that will keep the Intel Community intact - and get at the real perps this go around? My money is on the Operations guys over there at the 'pointy end" of the spear. I am really quite convinced , though cannot prove yet , - that the rank & file will not only not be made the "fall guys & gals " this time out - but because there appears to be so much bad blood between langley & the OVP 's shop that the Community will be proactively seeking to stop this administration from anymore illegal "strategerrry " .
paul wrote on January 28, 2008 7:40 PM:Stay tuned and watch for more "tapes" and documents showing up to prove Addington , Yoo, and even the Veep ordered that violations of the Geneva Convention be done . Finally its very likely it will not just be the spooks ratting out the OVP - but also the careerist at the FBI and the INR will also be stepping forward -
Revenge is a dish best served cold ..
Anyone want to start a pool on how long before Negroponte's half-hearted admission is "revised and extended"?
He was sworn in as DNI in February 2005, so his "several years before that" strictly read is a claim that no waterboarding was done later than February 2002. Even by the most liberal interpretation of several, no waterboarding after February 2003. Yeah, sure it wasn't.
All of these statements, coming toward the end of a criminal administration, serve both to define deviancy down ("sure we did it, it wasn't a big deal") and to put denials of individual responsibility on the record ("Nope, not me, before my time") prior to the criminal investigations they have to expect.
anon wrote on January 28, 2008 7:48 PM:It's possible, I guess, that tapes might show up and put the WH in hotter water but it seems most likely that the bulk of the torturing was done by contractors and/or non-US intelligence agencies. The WH, sure, was the prime actor in all of it but there's a lot of plausible deniability when there are so many layers. The WH, based on their reactions, is apparently highly vulnerable in a couple of cases that, for whatever reason, they decided to manage in some fashion out of the WH. It's bothersome, IMO, that the focus is on these couple of cases when there are clearly hundreds more. Also, it's clear that none of these cases, regardless of the evidence, are going anywhere while Bush is in office. With any luck, President Obama/Clinton will ask the new AG on day one to appoint a special prosecutor, fund them properly, and let them loose. However, even a proper investigation is going to be tricky. How do you deal with foreign torture "advisors" and so on?
Anonymous wrote on January 28, 2008 8:02 PM:I concur the problems today stretch back to Iran-Contra. But let's not "do nothing" today, otherwise, in 20 years, we'll be saying, "They did it again, just like under Bush 43 and Iran-Contra."
This is getting old. We need to openly discuss some solutions to this continuing arrogance that gets recycled. Whether Congress chooses to lead or participate is meaningless: They're part of the problem.
Presidential power can be subject to law, and it is not unlimited: Pardons could be regulated, and taken off the table. According to the Constitution, by starting an impeachment proceeding, that would remove the Pardon as an option. If Pardons were not an option for Iran-contra people, there may have been less incentive for people to blindly violate the law.
There are there situations where impeachment proceedings should start because of the self-evident war crimes and gross abuses of power; and inaction on impeachment could be a subsequent offense against individual Members of Congress.
EH wrote on January 28, 2008 8:22 PM:"Let's let bygones be bygones" is always said by the person who did something wrong.
brian wrote on January 28, 2008 9:09 PM:Negroponte - one of the Made Men appointed because he was up to his neck in the Iran-Contra affair ...
Remember, you cannot move up unless you are in the same danger of scandal/prosecution as the bosses ...
Did you notice, colleagues, that WOLFOWITZ is back - as an arms negotiator ?!?!?!?
* G A G *
We need an Heracles to clean out the Augean stables of this government.
none other wrote on January 28, 2008 9:51 PM:Anyone watch thestate of union tonite? I wonder what novel Pelosi is reading in the background?
Bert wrote on January 28, 2008 10:37 PM:LiberalTarian had a good point. The camera only shows what you want it to show, you point the viewfinder at the intended subject, and press the shutter, and 'click' the image is preserved.
Parallel: Screaming babies at the US/Mexico border. The camera captures the screaming baby, misses the drugmobile that the picture is being taken FROM. Audience is duly impressed, immediately votes for the border to be thrown wide-open so that poor little Haysoos gets dinner. His baby food is probably canned IN Mexico, but that's irrelevant. Point is, the media and the government are both trying to jerk your chain. Why? Cause it's LUCRATIVE. And, if you were honest about the whole thing, there'd likely be a much, much DIFFERENT set of responses, likely involving torches and pitchforks and on-the-spot recall votes.
The United States is OVER 9 trillion dollars in the hole. It's time for some policy reform, and budget cuts. I don't care how good the sunshine stories are, the responsible parties should, in my view, review all facts available to them that are not in the public domain, and 'decidererer' what the 'way forward' should be, here. Big buxx in defrauding the public for fun and profit, ethics test is on Thursday, closed-book and all that...stop pissing our money away. Keep it up at this rate, and we'll end up a caliphate or something. Or a police state. Or worse, just plain broke.
charlie amacher wrote on January 28, 2008 10:46 PM:If moving forward means over the cliff, then yes I'd certainly like to ascertain the terrain that led me there.
My most pressing question about this article is this: When I saw it at lunch earlier today and it sported a grim unsmiling image for Mr. Negroponte. Now that I'm re-reading it at home I only see a happy uncle Fester pose. Was the first one really Mr. Creedy from V for Vendetta? If so I suspect it better captures his inner self.
Utopia wrote on January 28, 2008 10:53 PM:So I guess this gets added to the other 935 false statements made by the Administration. Who's keeping score?
U
phil james wrote on January 28, 2008 11:04 PM:You are absolutely right Johnny-boy. We should avert our gaze from the so-called but as yet unverified (or at least unadjudicated) lawlessness of the last 7 years. How patient you are to allow us our brief moments of concern about the unraveling of our (just-a-piece-of-paper?) Constitution or our national shame in the eyes of the world. After all, who are we to question the superior intellect of the unitary executive and his most trusted (hench)men? Haven't you done so right by us all this time? We are but swine before your smooth, all-so-knowing, worldly gaze and your supremely brilliant solutions to all of our nation's most knotty problems. I feel faint when contemplating such a mind as yours Johnny. Or is that feeling just nausea?
Sade. wrote on January 29, 2008 12:31 AM:I for one, would like to be a witness to Negroponte getting waterboardead.
Or Negroponte with a hood over his ugly head, and electrodes at the tips of his bloody hands.
A cattle prod up his conservative rump would make him suddenly see the light. He would be able to confess to anything you'd want him to.
No. I much prefer the waterboarding script better. Preferably until respiratory failure ensued.
Then, he could be revived with a little more shock therapy.
More waterboarding.
Wash. Rinse.
flop wrote on January 29, 2008 12:34 AM:... "a no-brainer"
(L0L!)
pywiak wrote on January 29, 2008 1:17 AM:"I would rather focus on what we need to do going forward"
Please don't be surprised when this becomes the Democratic mantra as well. There will be no credible accountability.
alecos wrote on January 29, 2008 5:09 AM:Hitler might say same thing if he is alive now,
reklama77 wrote on January 29, 2008 9:37 AM:then he might also say I knoow these people could create unimaginable human rights abuse towards Araps and Palestinians on that ground alleged holocast hapen, so think of me as a George Bush of that time and my policies towards the Jews are premptive strikes on the ground that they would create a lot of problems.
If George Bush is correct on that ground to priemptive strikes to Iraq Afghanistan and even to Iran how come I was not correct? If Israel did not exist so middle east problem today would not exist,I am sure he could ask tis type of questions with smile on his face.
Then againe we can not say these type of politically not correct things on our times.
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Josh, this thread seems like it went to seed.
Dogjudge wrote on January 29, 2008 10:43 AM:So now we have confirmation from Negroponte that an illegal method of interrogating prisoners was used.
SO WHY ISN'T HE BEING CHARGED WITH A CRIME?
What the hell is wrong with this country?
Bill F wrote on January 29, 2008 12:28 PM:Louis wins.....he wrote on January 28, 2008 7:06 PM:
Has he also stopped beating his wife?
Scott wrote on January 29, 2008 12:36 PM:Is there anyone like Philip Agee out there anymore? Anyone with a conscience? Those who go along with what they know to be criminal are themselves criminals!
JNagarya wrote on January 29, 2008 12:55 PM:"Anonymous wrote on January 28, 2008 8:02 PM:
"I concur the problems today stretch back to Iran-Contra. . . ."
In fact, they stretch back to Watergate. You have been watching the last chapter of Watergate -- Iran-Contra was one of the middle chapters.
jimbo92107 wrote on January 29, 2008 6:01 PM:A glass half full of John Negroponte's spit is hardly something to celebrate.
Anonymous wrote on January 29, 2008 6:26 PM:Ask Negroponte about the checklists used to organize the alleged illegal abuse.
- Which notes did the interrogators make on these checklists?
- Which checklists were used to organize feeding of the prisoners?
- When did Negroponte first learn of the destruction of these annotated checklists?
Kos: PlutoniumPage wrote on January 29, 2008 9:08 PM:Kos link: Negroponte says waterboarding hasn't bee used for "years". That implies it _was_ used.
PlutoniumPage writes: "He was Director of National Intelligence from 2005 to 2007. When he says 'not even for a few years before that', what does he mean? Three years? Two years?"
Sean wrote on January 29, 2008 9:15 PM:The words "world-class detention center" symbolizes the entire sick-mindedness of our government. Perhaps next we will develop world-class harsh interrogation devices. I wish we could elect a president who would investigate the whole gang of thugs in our government and under relevant laws and procedures through the justice department, prosecute them. This is the only way we will ever get our government under control. They need to be humiliated under the law that is supposed to control them. So far as I know the only candidate who is still in the race who said he would investigate the Iraq lead-up is Paul. Does anyone know about the others? I am sure Clinton won't since she voted for it.
Roberta wrote on January 29, 2008 9:46 PM:Let's see. Negroponte was director from 2005 to 2006. So he says waterboarding wasn't being used during that time, "nor even for a few years before that." So even though the speculation is that it went on into 2003, let's give him a "few years," which would take us back to 2002.
According to the NYT, "a Dec. 6 [2007] statement by the C.I.A. director, Gen. Michael V. Hayden. General Hayden, addressing agency employees after being told that The New York Times was about to publish an article about the tapes, wrote that the taping stopped in 2002."
The WaPo reported previously, "According to interviews with more than two dozen current and former U.S. officials familiar with the debate, the taping was conducted from August to December 2002 to demonstrate that interrogators were following the detailed rules set by lawyers and medical experts in Washington, and were not causing a detainee's death."
2002 was a big year: The end of taping interrogations (but those interrogations really only were taped between August and December?) and there could still have been waterboarding going on to be memorialized on tape.
But the tapes are gone, supposedly.
Anonymous asks some intriguing questions, but Negroponte opens up the need for some others, because his statement about when waterboarding ceased provides the reason why those "detailed rules" were established by "lawyers and medical experts in Washington."
Who died, Mr. Negroponte? Even if you weren't director at that time, you know.
There's no statute of limitations on homicide in the US, and I doubt that the War Crimes Commission would balk at trying Negroponte for his complicity in this whole sordid affair even years from now.
Unless the whole lot of them end up in Dubai, Cheney and his boys will be able to answer for their crimes at some point.
Unermeldden wrote on January 30, 2008 9:25 AM:http://www.tc-workshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36