Comments (33)

SPENCER wrote on October 15, 2007 6:45 PM:

and this is just the beginning; I just sent Spencer (great name, there!)today's email from Secrecy News; did you know that, for a mere $1000, Comcast will intercept your phone and emails?

Jan wrote on October 15, 2007 6:56 PM:

Of all the scary things the Bush adminstration has done, this stands out as one of the scariest to me. It appears that the fix was in just a month after Bush was sworn in, not on Sept. 12, 2001, as was assumed.

electricphoto wrote on October 15, 2007 7:04 PM:

I say that all this spying was on members of congress and key people that they want to control. They have used information collected to keep peopl quiet.

Everywhere you look in congress you see Republicans and Democrats who talk big and back down everytime when without enforcing the laws.

Leahey, keeps writting letters and sending complaints to others to enforce. Pelosi says no impeachment, Kerry knew of systematic vote fraud and never speaks out.

Meanwhile we see massive shows of force of their ability to smear and ruin people.

This stuff went on for years under J Edgar Hoover. Keep comprimising files on people and you can get what you want from them.

That's what the spying was doing...

Dennis wrote on October 15, 2007 7:25 PM:

Leahey is too damned nice to be an investigator.

Nancy Pelosi has become a democratic party joke.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

Neal Deesit wrote on October 15, 2007 7:34 PM:

"a pair of twin bombshells"

Is that four bombshells? If so, you haven't described the other two yet.

ZZZZ wrote on October 15, 2007 7:35 PM:

Hey, this guy Joseph Nacchio talked and he wasn't even tortured? What the...

dm wrote on October 15, 2007 7:51 PM:

From Gonzales' testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee on Feb. 6, 2006:

"SEN. LEAHY: Mr. Chairman -- raised some interesting points, and I -- you know, I'm listening to the attorney general, who's now arguing that the president's wiretapping on Americans without a warrant is legal, it does not violate the controlling law of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. They've given a fancy name to the president's surveillance, but I'd remind them that the terrorist surveillance program is the FISA law, which we passed. I think you are violating express provisions of that act.

So let me ask you a few questions that could be easily answered yes or no. I'm not asking about operational details. I'm trying to understand when the administration came to the conclusion that the congressional resolution authorizing the military force against al Qaeda, where we had hoped that we would actually catch Osama bin Laden, the man who hit us -- but where you came to conclusion that it authorized warrantless wiretapping of Americans inside the United States. Did you reach that conclusion before the Senate passed the resolution on September 14th, 2001?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Senator, the -- what I can say is that the program was initiated subsequent to the authorization to use military force --

SEN. LEAHY: Well, then let me --

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: -- and our legal analysis was completed prior to the authorization of that program.

SEN. LEAHY: So did -- so your answer is, you did not come to that conclusion before the Senate passed the resolution on September 14th, 2001?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Sir, I certainly had not come to that conclusion. There may be others in the administration who did.

SEN. LEAHY: Were you aware of anybody in the administration that came to that conclusion before September 14th, 2001?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Senator, sitting here right now, I don't have any knowledge of that.

SEN. LEAHY: Were you aware of anybody coming to that conclusion before the president signed the resolution on September 18th, 2001?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: No, Senator, the only thing I can recall is that we had just been attacked and that we had been attacked by an enemy from within our own borders --

SEN. LEAHY: Mr. Attorney --

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: -- and that we --

SEN. LEAHY: -- Attorney General, I understand. I was here when that attack happened.

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Right.

SEN. LEAHY: And I joined with Republicans and Democrats and virtually every member of this Congress to try to give you the tools that you said you needed for us to go after al Qaeda, and especially to go after Osama bin Laden, the man that we all understood masterminded the attack, the man who's still at large.

Now, back to my question. Did you come to the conclusion that you had to have this warrantless wiretapping of Americans inside the United States to protect us before the president signed the resolution on September 18th, 2001? You were the White House counsel at the time.

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: What I can say is that we came to a conclusion that the president had the authority to authorize this kind of activity before he actually authorized the activity.

SEN. LEAHY: When was that?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: It was subsequent to the authorization to use military force.

SEN. LEAHY: When?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Sir, it was just a short period of time after the authorization to use military force.

SEN. LEAHY: Was it before or after NSA began its surveillance program?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Again, the -- NSA did not commence the activities under the terrorist surveillance program before the president gave his authorization. Before the president gave the authorization, he was advised by lawyers within the administration that he had the legal authority to authorize this kind of surveillance of the enemy.

SEN. LEAHY: So you -- so NSA didn't do this until the president gave them the green light that they could authorize warrantless wiretapping of Americans inside the United States --

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Well --

SEN. LEAHY: -- under the circumstances you described in your earlier testimony?

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: Of course, Senator, the NSA has other authorities to engage in electronic surveillance --

SEN. LEAHY: No, I understand that.

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: -- and I'm told that they --

SEN. LEAHY: But I'm talking about this specific program.

ATTY GEN. GONZALES: And I'm told they took advantage of those authorities. But I -- it's my understanding, and I believe this to be true, that the NSA did not commence in the kind of electronic surveillance which I am discussing here today prior to the president's authorization."

Thomas Williams wrote on October 15, 2007 8:46 PM:

So who will get the rope that we as the people through our elective oficials will use to 'hang' a whole slew of neo-thugs?

WAIT a second before you decide to point out that the democrats let the repugathugs have the rope that they should hang themselves with, I for one think that the rope repugathugs have is never gonna work on the spineless repugathugs, cant break a neck in the jerk of the knot if there is no spine to snap in the fall.

no one in this country wants to see their heads severed by the rope rolling around on the floor so lets bring back burning them at the stake, it would be a sort of poetic justice as it was the prefered way of the ultra conservative christians to deal with those they considered evil and law breakers in centuries past.

Where can you get tickets?

Diane wrote on October 15, 2007 9:03 PM:

Priceless, DM.

DallasNE wrote on October 15, 2007 9:08 PM:

This could be huge. But only if the Bush administration doesn't throw the blanket of States Secrets over the probe.

Obviously, an informed public for the next election is secondary to any possible lawbreaking being exposed.

Accountability has become a 4-letter word not to be uttered in public.

JubleJohnson wrote on October 15, 2007 9:37 PM:

Look folks when I see Conyers and all the dems DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT only then you should get your hopes up.
When in heck are they going to enforce those subpoenas ?zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
I guess i knew the answer.

Marty Didier wrote on October 15, 2007 9:46 PM:

The Spying question is part of something else far worse than what many know. After being in a family for more than 26 years who became a money-laundering unit I can tell you with my life’s experience that there’s something else involved. The family’s job is to launder “Drug and Gun Running” money straight into property for those involved. The “Gun Running” part has already been in the news involving Drummond and Chiquita, but what many don’t know is that both of these companies as well as others (Coke a Cola and more) have been distributing drugs to America and elsewhere for decades.

What’s most difficult to believe is that the “drug system proceeds” are being used to fund “Black Op’s” supporting a White House Coup that has been in the works for decades with small changes to our Government system in preparation for what they call “The Change”. The last time a Coup was tried in the US was in 1933 and involved Prescott Bush, President Bush’s Grandfather who also financially supported Hitler. The same groups are involved this time but they say they have done their planning to guarantee success this time. I’ve known about this for a very long time and couldn’t believe it then but with all the news, it’s most clear what is up.

The Chicago weekly $100million shipment of drugs comes in through Mexico after being picked up by speedboats and brought back to a Mexican residence. This was told to me throughout the 80’s and at last 1996. The shipments are driven across the Texas border without ever being stopped because “corruption” protects and guarantees safe shipments from the point of origin all the way to each destination. Keep in mind that the Chicago shipment alone exceeds 5 Billion a year. Around Chicago, the shipments are split also with Florida and New York and there are other huge weekly shipments sent to other areas within the US as well as outside our boarders.

In 1996, the family threatened me the last time that if I talked to anyone about this, I would end up being setup and either placed in a mental institution or executed as others have in Texas. Then there are also setup car accidents and other problems too. Wire Tapping while married always was an on going problem and has continued even after my divorce. It still continues to this day. All of my networked office computer systems have data collection software embedded within the Windows systems that collect everything I do and squirt it out in small segments to awaiting IP addresses. You won’t believe who owns the IP addresses!

Another threat was “When the CHANGE COMES, you’re either with us OR you’re NOT! If you’re NOT, you’ll end up in one of the many Prison’s located around the US”. The family’s mention of Prison’s are the Detention Camps that Halliburton was given ~$360million to build. Websites have counted in excess of 800 Prisons! They call it “The Change”, but the Coup has been on going for decades preparing for when the Change will happen. The family mentioned that an Economic Collapse is the start for “The Change” and will start with a collapse of the Housing Industry mixed with the Banking Industry.

There is almost too much to talk about regarding this issue. I'll write more another time…

Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL

Marty Didier wrote on October 15, 2007 9:47 PM:

The Spying question is part of something else far worse than what many know. After being in a family for more than 26 years who became a money-laundering unit I can tell you with my life’s experience that there’s something else involved. The family’s job is to launder “Drug and Gun Running” money straight into property for those involved. The “Gun Running” part has already been in the news involving Drummond and Chiquita, but what many don’t know is that both of these companies as well as others (Coke a Cola and more) have been distributing drugs to America and elsewhere for decades.

What’s most difficult to believe is that the “drug system proceeds” are being used to fund “Black Op’s” supporting a White House Coup that has been in the works for decades with small changes to our Government system in preparation for what they call “The Change”. The last time a Coup was tried in the US was in 1933 and involved Prescott Bush, President Bush’s Grandfather who also financially supported Hitler. The same groups are involved this time but they say they have done their planning to guarantee success this time. I’ve known about this for a very long time and couldn’t believe it then but with all the news, it’s most clear what is up.

The Chicago weekly $100million shipment of drugs comes in through Mexico after being picked up by speedboats and brought back to a Mexican residence. This was told to me throughout the 80’s and at last 1996. The shipments are driven across the Texas border without ever being stopped because “corruption” protects and guarantees safe shipments from the point of origin all the way to each destination. Keep in mind that the Chicago shipment alone exceeds 5 Billion a year. Around Chicago, the shipments are split also with Florida and New York and there are other huge weekly shipments sent to other areas within the US as well as outside our boarders.

In 1996, the family threatened me the last time that if I talked to anyone about this, I would end up being setup and either placed in a mental institution or executed as others have in Texas. Then there are also setup car accidents and other problems too. Wire Tapping while married always was an on going problem and has continued even after my divorce. It still continues to this day. All of my networked office computer systems have data collection software embedded within the Windows systems that collect everything I do and squirt it out in small segments to awaiting IP addresses. You won’t believe who owns the IP addresses!

Another threat was “When the CHANGE COMES, you’re either with us OR you’re NOT! If you’re NOT, you’ll end up in one of the many Prison’s located around the US”. The family’s mention of Prison’s are the Detention Camps that Halliburton was given ~$360million to build. Websites have counted in excess of 800 Prisons! They call it “The Change”, but the Coup has been on going for decades preparing for when the Change will happen. The family mentioned that an Economic Collapse is the start for “The Change” and will start with a collapse of the Housing Industry mixed with the Banking Industry.

There is almost too much to talk about regarding this issue. I'll write more another time…

Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL

Marty Didier wrote on October 15, 2007 9:48 PM:

The Spying question is part of something else far worse than what many know. After being in a family for more than 26 years who became a money-laundering unit I can tell you with my life’s experience that there’s something else involved. The family’s job is to launder “Drug and Gun Running” money straight into property for those involved. The “Gun Running” part has already been in the news involving Drummond and Chiquita, but what many don’t know is that both of these companies as well as others (Coke a Cola and more) have been distributing drugs to America and elsewhere for decades.

What’s most difficult to believe is that the “drug system proceeds” are being used to fund “Black Op’s” supporting a White House Coup that has been in the works for decades with small changes to our Government system in preparation for what they call “The Change”. The last time a Coup was tried in the US was in 1933 and involved Prescott Bush, President Bush’s Grandfather who also financially supported Hitler. The same groups are involved this time but they say they have done their planning to guarantee success this time. I’ve known about this for a very long time and couldn’t believe it then but with all the news, it’s most clear what is up.

The Chicago weekly $100million shipment of drugs comes in through Mexico after being picked up by speedboats and brought back to a Mexican residence. This was told to me throughout the 80’s and at last 1996. The shipments are driven across the Texas border without ever being stopped because “corruption” protects and guarantees safe shipments from the point of origin all the way to each destination. Keep in mind that the Chicago shipment alone exceeds 5 Billion a year. Around Chicago, the shipments are split also with Florida and New York and there are other huge weekly shipments sent to other areas within the US as well as outside our boarders.

In 1996, the family threatened me the last time that if I talked to anyone about this, I would end up being setup and either placed in a mental institution or executed as others have in Texas. Then there are also setup car accidents and other problems too. Wire Tapping while married always was an on going problem and has continued even after my divorce. It still continues to this day. All of my networked office computer systems have data collection software embedded within the Windows systems that collect everything I do and squirt it out in small segments to awaiting IP addresses. You won’t believe who owns the IP addresses!

Another threat was “When the CHANGE COMES, you’re either with us OR you’re NOT! If you’re NOT, you’ll end up in one of the many Prison’s located around the US”. The family’s mention of Prison’s are the Detention Camps that Halliburton was given ~$360million to build. Websites have counted in excess of 800 Prisons! They call it “The Change”, but the Coup has been on going for decades preparing for when the Change will happen. The family mentioned that an Economic Collapse is the start for “The Change” and will start with a collapse of the Housing Industry mixed with the Banking Industry.

There is almost too much to talk about regarding this issue. I’ll write more another time….

Marty Didier
Northbrook, IL

enough wrote on October 15, 2007 10:06 PM:

Rope is cheap. Guts and common sense seem to be in very short supply. How do we replace Pelosi? I used to respect her, but not after her recent statements, and not after Bushco have continually upped the ante. This is no surprise except to a few very deluded Democrats.

Geraldine wrote on October 15, 2007 10:08 PM:

No corporation does a deed for the sake of patriotism. Anyone who believes they do is a fool. Corporations lie, cheat steal, pollute and murder. The telecoms are Bushco's STASI. Has everyone forgotten that the Nazis traced Jews through the German telecoms, allowing Hitler to locate and exterminate them. If Conyers lets them get away with this with immunity for the telecoms it will be one of the more pathetic events of many pathetic events of late.

Anonymous wrote on October 15, 2007 10:22 PM:

I find it fascinating that Republicans perceive national security threats as coming from the inside while the Democrats generally perceive them as coming from the outside. The sick and twisted irony is it's the reverse for each. Democrats should worry more about the inside, and Republicans should worry more about the outside.

anjin-san wrote on October 15, 2007 10:31 PM:

I am beginning to think that Bin Laden destroyed America on 9-11.

Once upon a time, when it became clear that Richard Nixon had broken the law while in office, there was really no doubt about the outcome, he was gone.

Nowadays, Bush wipes breaks the law, pretty much flaunts it, and wipes his ass with congressional subpoenas. It’s really pretty embarrassing to be a Democrat.

I would call the house leadership toothless old ladies, but that would be a disservice to toothless old ladies, who can surprise you sometimes.

anjin-san wrote on October 15, 2007 10:32 PM:

I am beginning to think that Bin Laden destroyed America on 9-11.

Once upon a time, when it became clear that Richard Nixon had broken the law while in office, there was really no doubt about the outcome, he was gone.

Nowadays, Bush breaks the law, pretty much flaunts it, and wipes his ass with congressional subpoenas. It’s really pretty embarrassing to be a Democrat.

I would call the house leadership toothless old ladies, but that would be a disservice to toothless old ladies, who can surprise you sometimes.

cjop wrote on October 15, 2007 10:46 PM:

Toothless old ladies have bigger balls than the Democrats. That is for sure. Sorry if this sounds like a hissy fit. I just don't want you readers to get your hopes up that the Dems will actually do anything. Don't they get tired of this sort of stunt. What do the Dems hope to gain from roaring and then backing down. Pathetic. It seems to me that every time TPM reports on Conyers they use the same photo. Would it not be more appropriate to find a picture of him with a dress on? Jesus I get sick of reading about Conyers in TPM. Why don't you publish something about someone that will actually get something done in DC.

drat wrote on October 15, 2007 10:51 PM:

dm.
right you are.
pursue.

Anonymous wrote on October 15, 2007 11:54 PM:

Geraldine, I second your comments.

If Joe Naccio's allegations prove true, then the whole BushCo push for immunity for TelCos based on their 'concern for country' is out the window. The huge profit motive clearly won out in 9 of 10 cases.

"...The Bush administration has said the companies cooperated in good faith because of their patriotism and desire to protect the country in the wake of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and should not be punished...:

That and earn millions for shareholders. TelCo spying was profit-driven, no immunity should apply.

Al in Austex wrote on October 16, 2007 5:05 AM:

The Dems are not the wussy some would want us to believe . Conyers & Leahey will yet make us proud.
Patience is a Virtue. Revenge is a dish best served cold..
Ignore the Trolls.
Interested Litigator are you still reading this thread- how intersting has it gotten in your part of our Neighborhood ?
I repeat - Ignore the Trolls.

Jan wrote on October 16, 2007 6:21 AM:

dm, that was awesome. thanks!
It seems from what you gave us, Leahy knew something while he was questioning. No wonder Gonzo lawyered up.

I agree w/Al in AusTex -- patience is a virtue.
Two points to remember:
(1) Dick Cheney vetted everyone who wanted to be VP, before HE became VP. He knows every single GOP's hidden secrets, and then some.
(2) Democrats do NOT have a majority in the Senate. There are 49 Republicans and 49 Democrats, and Dick Cheney is the tie-breaker.

Matt wrote on October 16, 2007 7:09 AM:

If the Dems are smart then they'll offer the Telecom Companies post 9/11 immunity for involvement in the NSA program.

This leads the Administration the option of accepting and leaving the Telecoms liable for there pre 9/11 activities or declining and tacitly admitting that this behaviour has been going on since Bush entered the White House.

Anonymous wrote on October 16, 2007 7:29 AM:

The Dems should not offer any liability protection until Hepting is resolved in the 9th Circuit. If the court resolves the case in favor of the telecom companies, then no liability protection will be needed. If (as appears more likely) the court rules in favor of the EFF folks, then the Democrats will find themselves in a far stronger bargaining position.

sy wrote on October 16, 2007 8:16 AM:

Verizon Says It Turned Over Data Without Court Orders

Verizon Communications, the nation's second-largest telecom company, told congressional investigators that it has provided customers' telephone records to federal authorities in emergency cases without court orders hundreds of times since 2005.

The company said it does not determine the requests' legality or necessity because to do so would slow efforts to save lives in criminal investigations.

In an Oct. 12 letter replying to Democratic lawmakers, Verizon offered a rare glimpse into the way telecommunications companies cooperate with government requests for information on U.S. citizens.

Verizon also disclosed that the FBI, using administrative subpoenas, sought information identifying not just a person making a call, but all the people that customer called, as well as the people those people called. Verizon does not keep data on this "two-generation community of interest" for customers, but the request highlights the broad reach of the government's quest for data.

The disclosures, in a letter from Verizon to three Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee investigating the carriers' participation in government surveillance programs, demonstrated the willingness of telecom companies to comply with government requests for data, even, at times, without traditional legal supporting documents. The committee members also got letters from AT&T and Qwest Communications International, but those letters did not provide details on customer data given to the government. None of the three carriers gave details on any classified government surveillance program.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/15/AR2007101501857.html?hpid=topnews

Billy Pilgrim wrote on October 16, 2007 9:16 AM:

Regarding the exchange between Leahy and Gonzales as reported by DM, is that not irrefutable proof of perjury by Gonzales in light of Naccio's recent court filing?

Anonymous wrote on October 16, 2007 9:32 AM:

Before discussing perjury, I think we would need to know more about the activity mentioned in the Naccio filing. Just because the NSA asked for something without legal basis doesn't necessarily mean that the NSA asked to begin the activities characterized as the TSP. Gonzales has relied on a very specific and limited definition of TSP to refute perjury allegations in the recent past.

The testimony does seem to show that something else was going on prior to 9/11 that was uncomfortably close to the activities described as the TSP. The Naccio filing would tend to support this statement.

Anonymous wrote on October 16, 2007 11:31 AM:

If the Dems are smart then they'll offer the Telecom Companies post 9/11 immunity for involvement in the NSA program.

very sharp, matt. this would drive home the pre-9/11 origins of this crime.

benjoya wrote on October 16, 2007 11:32 AM:

If the Dems are smart then they'll offer the Telecom Companies post 9/11 immunity for involvement in the NSA program.

very sharp, matt. this would drive home the pre-9/11 origins of this crime.

erica wrote on October 16, 2007 12:28 PM:

See text below. I'm not sure Matt's idea is as sharp as we'd like it to be. The Repubs would probably accept, tacitly admit that the behavior has been going on and dare anyone to challenge them on it.

There is such a thing as being too sharp for our own good. I say offer them nothing.

Matt wrote on October 16, 2007 7:09 AM:
If the Dems are smart then they'll offer the Telecom Companies post 9/11 immunity for involvement in the NSA program.

This leads the Administration the option of accepting and leaving the Telecoms liable for there pre 9/11 activities or declining and tacitly admitting that this behaviour has been going on since Bush entered the White House.

Al in Austex wrote on October 16, 2007 9:55 PM:

We need to keep our eyes on the prize. Jan is right , Cheney , is one of the best political infighters there is in D.C. Just look up his record.
The TSP/TIA \Poindexter crap , the torture memos, the Curve Ball intel debacle, the pernicious , persistent application of the unitarian exective theory -all flows from the OVP. Addington , Yoo, Cambone , Fieth are all part of the Cheney Putsche against WE the People 's Republic.
Keep our eyes on the Prize - the Impeachment & Conviction of VP Cheney is attainable. No less a constitutional scholar expert then Bruce Fine says so ..
If it can be proved that Cheney is at the heart of any of the many criminal wrong doings -then WE the People can still get Cheney,
But we must ignore the TROLLS, support the Oversight Committees, & insist on the rule of law.
Now I can also hold fast in my support of Conyers &Leahey , et al .. and still send Cindy Sheehan money in her primary bid against Madam Speaker. Ms Pelosi ,at the minimum must get out of the way of the Kucinchi effort to bring articles of Impeachment against the VEEP..
Keep our eyes on the prize. Patience is a virtue. Revenge is a dish best served cold.
And to any Bushco 'monitors" on this thread -please recall that even liberals in Texas are strong proponents of the 2ND amendment - and we liberals have been visting with our Ron Paul pals ,and even our distant kin over at INFO.Wars .com - and right here, right now we all agree to disagree about social security & the U.N ETC- Because right now BushcO monitor you can bet we are all just Americans period quite prepared to defend our Constitution against enemies both foriegn -and right now in particular enemies that are domestic.
The general feeling could best be described as watchful and persisitent.
Recall too that not long ago former Cong Barr introduced former Vice President Gore when Gore delivered a major speech warning against the various abuses both civil and criminal we now suffer under our current administration .
In short Mr Monitor we are all ONLY Americans right now- and you all will not get away with this coup you have been plotting. You don't have to believe me -go ask Bob Barr or Alex Jones they will tell you the same thing -