Comments (30)

regular lurker wrote on August 13, 2007 4:07 PM:

This is who we are. All of us. Left, right, center. We condone this behavior. This is who we have become and perhaps this is who we have always been. We just fooled ourselves hiding behind the faux ideals of a "just" American society. A "just" society would never allow children to go hungry or homeless or suffer in illness.

And if you don't care about your neighbor's children, how can you care about a stranger?

This is who we really are. It's not pretty, is it?

jon wrote on August 13, 2007 4:09 PM:

Can someone explain to me why we would work with Syria to interrogate/torture this guy? We accuse them of backing terrorists, but then collaboratively work with them to gather intelligence from these 'interrogations' for accuses terrorists. Am I missing something?

KingFriday wrote on August 13, 2007 4:17 PM:

Could someone please re-educate me in the good vs evil rhetoric of the boy king? I don't get it anymore....used to be axis of evil Vs Coalition of the willing. Black Vs White, easy enough.

But now if Syria is a member of the axis of evil why in the world are they helping the coalition of the willing defend our blessed lifestyles? Has Syria taken Eritrea's place in the coalition? After all, Eritrea is a member of the CoW yet they are apparently aiding somali islamists against US interests.

Also, how is it that dialog and diplomacy is bad (especially when the democrats met Assad) but to cooperate in rendition and torture is A-OK?

Will somebody in the MSM please just once ask the boy king questions like these....are you guys afraid he will yell at you or something?

Equal Opportunity Cynic wrote on August 13, 2007 4:29 PM:

Unlike we US citizens, I would think that Canadians could reasonably expect a lot of government and RCMP resignations over this. We know the US government has long sense run off the rails, but what the hell is Canada doing sending its own citizens to be tortured?!

Chacounne wrote on August 13, 2007 4:54 PM:

To the Equal Opportunity Cynic:

The Commissioner of the RCMP has already resigned over this, the government of the time was defeated, and the Prime Minister has appologized to Mr. Arar and offered millions of dollars in compensation. Still, more accountability needs to happen.

Mr. Arar remains on the US no-fly list and has been denied even the simple acknowledgement by the US government that he was tortured.

As the widow of a Vietnam vet and POW who was tortured by his North Vietnamese captors, let me just say that this leaves me heart-broken and outraged, but firm in my resolve to hold them all to account.

Torture is ALWAYS wrong, no matter who is doing it whom.
For Dan,
Heather

Anonymous wrote on August 13, 2007 4:59 PM:

Cynic,

The RCMP has been a rogue power unto itself for years. The Arar inquiry revealed some of it.

But they also effectively swung the last election to the Conservatives by groundlessly and publicaly investigating a Liberal cabinet minister for leaking a financial announcement.

Finally, the commissioner, Zaccardelli, was forced to resign not due to the election manipulation, but due to a financial scandal with their pension funds.

illlich wrote on August 13, 2007 5:02 PM:

If you have ever read Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archipelago" this should come as no surprise; suspects were tortured until they admitted guilt and then named other suspects, who were then tortured, and so on.

The phrase "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance" comes to mind, vigilance not only against enemies, but also towards ourselves: it is not enough to assume that because we are "the home of the free" that we MUST be doing the right thing. This is the error of G.W. Bush-- it is inconceivable to him that he can possibly be doing anything but God's will, and as such is ushering in an America that is less free and less safe, all in the name of freedom and security.

johnnydoughey wrote on August 13, 2007 5:36 PM:

Don't worry folks...
The Democrats we voted in will take care of this...
It's an eye opening for me to realized that I was so duped by my party that I actually helped support a couple of the democrats who are now supporting torture, lawlessness, ethical misconduct, and destruction of our Constitution.

I was told as a kid to pay more attention to people's actions than what they say... I'll be much more careful in the future. I will NEVER take what a politician tells me at face value and, if I find they have outright lied or fudged or misrepresented facts... they will never get my vote...

retr2327 wrote on August 13, 2007 5:42 PM:

"Arar is still refused entry to the U.S. on the grounds that he poses a security risk"

But under the Administration's logic he does - now - pose a security risk even if he was as innocent as Snow White when the Syrians tortured him. Because revealing what was done to him reveals classified information. Talk about your Catch-22!

Ken wrote on August 13, 2007 5:43 PM:

Syria was an ally early on in the so called war on terror, at least until the invasion of Iraq. Google "Syria war on terror" and check out the first link to counterpunch. I mean in that article the author interviews King Assad, and the King asks the author to convey a message to Washington D.C. that Syria would welcome a team of U.S. Border agents to train the Syrians on how to better control the border with Iraq. The Syrians would love to get along with us, but the neocons can't stomach it.

The chimp and his chimplings drove Syria away from us with their heavy handed rhetoric and threatening behavior. Syria is actually a case study in the disastrous results of Bush's approach to foreign policy. It's not even that Bush won't deal with our enemies... Bush insists that nations who would like to be our friends are enemies.

c4logic wrote on August 13, 2007 5:48 PM:

It is beginning to look like Franz Kafka was even more prophetic than we imagined. I can only hope one day soon Karl Rove wakes up to discover he is a cockroach.

Bill wrote on August 13, 2007 5:59 PM:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news for the government agents involved in this case, but they appear to all be guilty of the act of Torture. This carries a possible sentence of up to 20 years in prison.

The fact that he was not directly tortured by US government agents or inside the United States is irrelevant as to whether or they're guilty, as you can read below. I guess someone should have brushed up on the definition of "conspiracy" before they authorized this. The AG that succeeds Gonzales will probably not be as forgiving as he is. The good news is that if you turn yourselves in now, Bush would probably pardon or commute your sentence.

18 USC § 2340, Torture: “Torture” means an act committed by a person acting under the color of law specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control.

18 USC § 2340A, Torture"
(a) Offense.— Whoever outside the United States commits or attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

(b) Jurisdiction.— There is jurisdiction over the activity prohibited in subsection (a) if—
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States, irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged offender.

(c) Conspiracy.— A person who conspires to commit an offense under this section shall be subject to the same penalties (other than the penalty of death) as the penalties prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the conspiracy.

Mark Bialkowski wrote on August 13, 2007 6:03 PM:

This latest element of the Arar fiasco blew open last week on this side of the border. I don't think anyone up here is shocked anymore at the atrocious way he, and other Canucks being tortured in Syrian dungeons, were treated. It seems our police and security services were all too willing to hand anything, and anyone, over to the tender mercies of US agencies and their overseas allies in torture, all in the name of "fighting terror".

That the RCMP and CSIS haven't been torn to shreds over this indicates just how much influence the heads of those organizations have with the Harper government, and with the Martin government before it. As mentioned earlier, the head of the RCMP didn't leave over his BS in the Arar affair, but over the freakin' pension fund.

Sickening, all around.

Nell wrote on August 13, 2007 6:16 PM:

The Congress must repeal the Military Commissions Act passed last September in another bout of cowardice and fear, because it purports to retroactively legalize the tortures committed by U.S. personnel and by others at our request.

The next president must also restart the process by which this country will join the jurisdiction of the International Criminal Court, and the Senate must ratify it.

Then, and only then, will the way be clear to bring Bush, Cheney, Yoo, Addington, Gonzales, Rumsfeld, and Haynes to the dock. The ICC can only take up their cases if no body in the U.S. will try them.

Harold wrote on August 13, 2007 6:17 PM:

Please see Milos Forman's excellent new film Goya's Ghosts -- on the very topic of unreliable evidence based extracted by torture -- I understand Spanish audiences applauded at the film's demonstration of the inefficacy of torture for obtaining the truth. The tone of the movie matches that of the subject: Goya's art, which, in its chronicling both of royalty and of contemporary atrocities is both dark and yet not without gentle irony and detachment.

Inexplicably, this masterpiece has not been well reviewed. The truth is unbearable, I guess. But it is a very good movie, nonetheless and a fitting capstone to Forman's career.

bp wrote on August 13, 2007 6:18 PM:

Thanks to TPM for highlighting this. The documents showed that the Canadian security services and key civil servants and politicians understood that the US was sending Arar to Syria to be tortured. They fought to prevent this but the law eventually triumphed because a judge had to guts to insist on full disclosure. The head of RCMP was fired (in addition he tried to cover up some fiddles in the pension funds of the RCMP), the Canadian security services were shown up to be pretty much surrogates for the CIA and officialdom took a black eye. Arar and his wife have come across as a dignified couple; were paid millions in compensation (by a govt that is close to GWB!!!)

Some here see the CIA as no better than the Syrians - a cruel observation. So a member of the axis of evil does your dirty work. How ironic.

Dick (no, not that one) wrote on August 13, 2007 6:24 PM:

After reading "Legacy of Ashes", a history of the CIA, this seems to be the routine of administrations and the CIA. They used to do this kind of stuff because of the "Red Menace", now they do it because of the "Islamic Menace". The CIA is totally useless for anything except torturing and killing innocent people in the name of freedom.

syvanen wrote on August 13, 2007 7:02 PM:

Unfortunately, torture does work in extracting information that the torturer knows is in the subjects possession. Read about the Battle of Algiers to see where it worked as designed. Where it breaks down is when the subject knows nothing and starts making things up so the pain goes away.

It is also effective as a means of indoctrination -- it was used effectively during the Chinese cultural revolution to change many people from their bourgeois thought processes. Darkness at Noon describes this process.

Tim wrote on August 13, 2007 7:34 PM:

Maher Arar needs to be subpoenaed by Congress soon to give testimomy regarding his torture and illegal involvement of US officials. If he's on the no fly list, that's fine: Amtrak serves DC, if I'm not mistaken.

Anonymous wrote on August 13, 2007 7:52 PM:

Maybe if I was tortured, I might 'confess' to knowing the possible 'involvement' of certain senior high-level administration officials, you know, Bush, Cheney, Feith, Wolfy, Rummy-dummy, Rove, Addington, and the rest of the neo-clowns in highly illegal acts.... maybe then we'd have some follow-up?

Carol Lam wrote on August 13, 2007 8:13 PM:

SC- WRONG

Dear Attorney General Gonzales,

Remember the Constitution that you were sworn to uphold?

Remember what this country stands for?

Remember the laws you were supposed to defend?

If you do, then do what is right, just once, and resign.

___
Send a message to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. The man who brought us Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and illegal spying on Americans is now facing a possible perjury investigation from Congress.

Tell Gonzales it is time to go!

We will send one copy of the Constitution to Gonzales' office for every person who signs our petition. If we reach our goal of 40,000 signatures, we will add all the names to the biggest copy of the Constitution you have ever seen — and send that to his office too!

Help us reach our goal. Add your name today — then forward this message to five friends!

http://johnedwards.com/action/sign-petitions/gonzales/?gclid=CKj3wI_Z840CFQMYFQodikArKw

johnnydoughey wrote on August 13, 2007 9:15 PM:

"Send a message to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. The man who brought us Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and illegal spying on Americans is now facing a possible perjury investigation from Congress."

I'm sorry. Are you questioning God and his representtatives here on earth? Do you believe for one moment that God's warriors will actually listen to someone who, by the very nature of the request, represents SATAN?

This is spiritual warfare folks, and George is speaking to and for God... he will not pay attention to those who do not believe and are falling away...

It looks as though he has already proselytized the new democratic Congress so it won't do any good to appeal to them, either.

Glen wrote on August 13, 2007 10:16 PM:

It is interesting that the information Canada's conservative government went to court to withhold was precisely that information implicating the CIA in sending innocent people to be tortured by other countries. The information also neatly dispelled the American administration's continued assertions that Arar's rendition to Syria was an "immigration matter" and had nothing to do with the CIA.

Arar is currently not allowed into the USA period - if he's caught at the border he's arrested. He had to accept a Human Rights award last year via satellite as he couldn't risk going across the border. Given what's in the Arar Inquiry report, it seems to me that the only information the US has to keep him out of the country is information obtained under torture (Arar and Al-Mati).

I'd like to see Leahy hold some hearings on this. The administration should have to answer questions as to why they lied to the public and the government of Canada regarding Arar's removal to Syria and more importantly why they continue to rely on information obtained by torture.

Ian Davis wrote on August 13, 2007 11:35 PM:

Personally, as a Canadian, I think it would have been far more shocking if CSIS had not known that US authorities were likely to ship off those Canadians it wanted interrogated, to countries that could be expected to torture such individuals. An intelligence agency is supposed to have accurate intelligence on the behaviour of other intelligence agencies, and it would thus be troubling if CSIS had not known that the US was subcontracting out torture. What is shocking here is not that CSIS knew, but that that knowledge was not made available to those Canadian politicians involved in seeking to offer help to a Canadian citizen, and see him returned to Canada.

Anonymous wrote on August 13, 2007 11:42 PM:

I spoke confidentially to a former very senior official in the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade (DFAIT). He indicated that they had no control over what was done by CSIS and the RCMP. They are rogues.

bjobotts wrote on August 14, 2007 12:20 AM:

Screw u regular lurkar(Comment #1). I am not like that nor ever have been nor do I condone such treatment as I'm sure most Americans don't either.

...". A "just" society would never allow children to go hungry or homeless or suffer in illness.
And if you don't care about your neighbor's children, how can you care about a stranger?
This is who we really are. It's not pretty, is it?"

A just society doesn't allow it either...eventually. We work toward that goal yet there are many who purposely or not, get in the way of that goal. As fast as we find a way to deal with these problems other problems develop or complications happen such as natural disasters or war mongers. But that is not who "we" are. And that collective "we" can be mislead and tricked and even with the best intentions...falter. But you are putting everyone, the innocent and victim alike in with the perpetrators because we don't magically flip some switch and make it stop. It's insulting to the rest of us to say,... "this is who we really are". It's bullshit. I'm not like that and I doubt yu are either. Nor are most of the people I know. It's a handful of authoritarians without conscience who lied their way into power and set about abusing that power in secret. I don't like being called one of "them" because I'm not.

(weird...the SC was "screw")

spero wrote on August 14, 2007 1:24 AM:

cool your jets, botts. unhand the lurker.

it is us, as we are we. yep. it ain't pretty. we will get these batards off to the hague, and then THAT will be us. til then,

spero wrote on August 14, 2007 1:27 AM:

cool your jets, botts. unhand the lurker.

it is us, as we are we. yep. it ain't pretty. we will get these batards off to the hague, and then THAT will be us. til then,

johnnydoughey wrote on August 14, 2007 4:43 PM:

In the past, our society has set different penalties for different injustices. The two that stand out are torture and murder. If you or I were to believe someone deserved to be tortured or murdered, we would, deservedly, spend much of the rest of our lives in prison.

If, however, we took a different route and HIRED someone else to torture and/or murder someone we felt deserved it, we would most likely either spend the rest of our lives behind bars or be executed for the crime because moral people find this much more monstrous...

Our congressmen call this political maneuvering...
And we reelect them...

We are what we are, not what we THINK we are...

Roger wrote on August 23, 2007 10:19 PM:

Someone Please take the time to read the WHOLE report about Maher Arar because the MSM fears telling people about Arar fleeing Syria as a Draft-Dodger , he quickly applied for a Weapons-Permit which was granted in about 1992 which was just after the Jihad at a Montreal School where Gamil Gharabi murdered 14 females for Allah.
It was CAIR that coached Arar to avoid helping Canada expose Terror cells in Ottawa via CAIR's "Know Your Rights" pocket booklet for fellow Muslims in Canada and the USA , Arar had a home near the Boston Airport around 2000-2001 while his pregnant wife stayed back in Canada at his other Home.
The RCMP raided his Canadian Home with a Search Warrant and found Hard Drives and Data Disks hidden in walls and the attic, Arar also tried to smuggle a Laptop PC back into canada and when caught he refused to help by not revealing
the Security Password to view the Hard Drive .
Arar and his wife made several trip to the USA via a car to avoid Airport Documentation of their Travels , when the RCMP requested a interview with Arar it was CAIR that coached to to deny the interview and shortly after that period Maher and his Family fled Canada for Tunisia to live with the wifes relatives.
Except Monia Mozigh's relative was being watched by Tunisian Security for his ties to the Muslim Brotherhood , Arar was alleged to have ties as well during his upbringing in Syria and this promoted Arar fleeing as a Draft Dodger at 18 .
The Arar's failed to report to the Canadian Embassey that they now lived in Tunisia so they could get help with a Passport as Citizens , then when the Tunisian's tightened the noose it was Maher himself that fled to the Aiport alone and tried to entered the USA at JFK .
Maher left his loved Family in the Middle East and as a Syrian he travelled on a Canadian Passport by himself as a lone/Sunni/Muslim/male deplaning from Tunisia with a flimsy story about a Job Offer and AirMile Points that forced him to return to canada via JFK .

This was jsut 1 year after CAIR mocked the American's for allowing the 19 lone Muslim male Hijackers into the USA and let them stay , CAIR blamed 9/11 on Americans and the weak Security.

Now picture yourself at the Customs check point and Arar deplanes and is about to step on American soil , what would you do?
The U.N. allows Democratic Nation to refuse entry to anyone that may be a risk to Civilians or may not leave one they enter, Arar was REFUSED entry , Tunisia didn't want him back and the Airline refused to take him back as well .
Tunisia feared he would make a Refugee Claim and not leave since he just Fled Canada and evidence showed a link to CAIR and a Mosque in Boston that promote Jihad and recruited Al-Qaeda member for Afghanistan training camps , the USA was cited in Arar's own Statement to the Media in 2003 that he was well treated by the USA and given a private jet to meet up with his Family in Jordan to fly back to canada directly.
Arar blame Jordan for allowing arab kidnappers to take him and torture him for about a month and then took him blinded-folded by a SUV to a place he now claimed was his Homeland of Syria .
And for the record , it was only when Arar was about to face a Military Court as a Deserter that his Wife began the Standard Al-Qaeda tactic of "Alleging" Torture and Human Rights abuse , she followed the Manual to a Tee and then came back to canada to Crusade for his release as a victim of Islamophobia and Racial Profiling.

All of this is in the Report which I read plus saw hours of Video from the Inquiry , and Maher Arar's own Website posts his original Lawsuit for $30'000'000 against JORDAN who allowed the Kidnap and Torture , but when that Suit was refused by a Canadian Court in November of 2003 it was CAIR's Lawyers that launched a $400'000'000.00 Lawsuit against Canadians which was actually the standard Tactic of Ibrahim Hooper and CAIR as part of Financial Jihad to silence people.

The Report was very damning for Arar and it was no surprise that his Lawyers agreed to call off the Lawsuit for a mere $10'000'000.00 to save Court costs now that Canada stood to win as the Defendant for Arar's and CAIR's allegations of Torture.

CAIR and Nihad Awad have been linked to the Holy Land Foundation scam for laundering donation through a Charity to support Hamas and Hezballah , and Arar insisted he wants the Right to Fly to Saudi Arabia and other Islamic Nations which he is barred from currently , oh yeah...and he was to have access to the USA as well .

You were scammed folks and if these lies keep being repeated as the truth I am close to writing a book that details what caused Arar to be refused entry at JFK which was not allowed in the Arar Inquiry according to CAIR's Submissions for the time periods after Arar landed in the USA and tried to enter.

Since CAIR has defended Mosques that harbour
Muslim Illegals and raise fund for Hamas , I believe that CAIR and Al-Qaeda were planning to pick up Arar at JFK and hide him witin a Mosque near the Boston area where 2 of the 9/11 Planes came from.
The Canadian Government lawyers felt that the $10 million to Arar was a cheap way out to shut up CAIR and the whiner since even if canada wins against CAIR's lawyers the legal costs aren't worth it.
It was a Out-Of-Court settlement and not an admission to Guilt or Liability for canada , in fact , Justice O'Connor's Public Statement only claimed that there was no solid evidence proving a link to terrorism or terror groups by the Arar's and that they had no coommitted any crimes in canada or had be Charged for any Crimes.

CAIR , plus the Muslim leaders have hijacked Arar as the Poster-Boy for Jihad recruitment
based in Islamophobia and Racial profiling.
Many of the witnesses at the Arar inquiry had ties to CAIR or Militant islamic groups in Canada like the C.I.C.'s Dr.Elmasry who was caught on local TV declaring that every Israeli over 18 is a valid target for murder by suicide bombers , plus Imam Aly Hindy has admitted to telling Muslims to do Jihad in canada and fight for Sharia Law to hang Adulters in public as examples to other Canadians that aren't Muslims.

PLEASE LET ARAR SUE THE USA AND TAKE THE STAND TO GIVE EVIDENCE AND EXPLAIN HIS 2 HOMES AND WHY HE FLED CANADA FOR TUNISIA.

Arar had alleged he lost a job at the Global Relief Fund and now we see the GLF and HLF are in Court for funding Hamas and CAIR is listed as a Co-Conspirator funneling money to them and Nihad Awad linked to these bogus charities.