Comments (234)

P J Evans wrote on April 12, 2007 10:39 AM:

So how does the White House know what's on theRNC servers? Would they like to explain that one, preferably while under oath and in front of cameras and a committee? Have any reporters bothered to bring that up? Would, say, the NSA be able to help find the information?

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 10:39 AM:

The stench eminating from this administration is becoming unbearable, and at it's center is Karl Rove. Perhaps it's time for Turd Blossom to have a new nickname. How about Corpse Flower?

PTF wrote on April 12, 2007 10:41 AM:

"...The Clinton White House also had a similar parallel system..."

Incorrect.

The Clinton White House had a few DNC-provided computers and cell phones which were made available to Political Affairs staff. The Clinton White House DID NOT have outside DNC email accounts, NOR did it allow staffers to use AOL, Hotmail, etc at all. BlackBerries were not an issue as the Administration was in the pre-wireless.

owenz wrote on April 12, 2007 10:42 AM:

Basically, the White House is run like an organized crime family.

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 10:42 AM:

So we now know that the RNC system was faulty.

How about the White House's official system? Was that one up to speed, or did it have "problems" too?

Richard L. Adlof wrote on April 12, 2007 10:44 AM:

Supeona the White House IT staff for testimony.

Supeona the NSA e-mail traps for the docs.

Mara wrote on April 12, 2007 10:44 AM:

Exactly what has to happen in order for a special prosecutor to be assigned to investigate this mess? Who appoints one? Do they recuse themselves? This is unbelieveable.

C 92 wrote on April 12, 2007 10:44 AM:

The Hatch Act argument is a RED HERRING.

The Administration showed its disdain for the Hatch Act by hosting political strategy sessions at Agencies (think Lurita Doan's presentation with Scott Jennings at the GSA).

They didn't give a toss about the Hatch Act.

So to argue that the accounts were set up in an 'abundance of caution' for the Hatch Act is downright false.

Doug wrote on April 12, 2007 10:47 AM:

If 95% of Rove's e-mails used the RNC e-mail system, doesn't it follow that he is doing primarily RNC work? We should ask for back pay and recover any salary paid to him as a government employee.

C 92 wrote on April 12, 2007 10:47 AM:

"...One former White House political aide said he vaguely recalled receiving
guidance about sending e-mail on an RNC-provided BlackBerry and using a
gwb43.com e-mail account, but he had clearer memories of getting "a billion and
one" White House ethics briefings.

The e-mail instructions, from Sara Taylor, director of White House political
affairs, were meant to help aides juggle dual sets of communications devices to
comply with the Hatch Act and the Presidential Records Act, and to use the RNC
equipment and accounts "only for political activity..."

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0407/040907ol.htm

SARAH TAYLOR, ROVE'S DEPUTY RESIGNED LAST WEEK.

COUNCEDENCE?

scritch wrote on April 12, 2007 10:48 AM:

I have ready many times in the past that email is never *truly* erased. Copies exist on some server, somewhere. I bet the IT guys at the WH know where that server is, or maybe some enterprising techies at unnamed ISP's can provide the necessary backups, leaked anonymously, of course. I'm waiting with bated breath for the other shoe to drop.

Agjobs wrote on April 12, 2007 10:50 AM:

Anyone that was on the federal payroll should be investigated for using taxpayers time for partisan political purposes. If Rove used the RNC eamil 95% of the time then he owes us (taxpayers) 95% of his salary. In the private sector if you are caught using company time for non company purposes then you are stealing from the company. People are actually fired, sued or charged in these circumstances. I would think that the same should apply to Whitehouse staffers. Otherwise let the RNC put them on staff and get them off of OUR payroll.

PD wrote on April 12, 2007 10:51 AM:

Well, when you're lacking that direct evidence you need more sworn testimony.
Where's the media in all of this?

jeffs wrote on April 12, 2007 10:51 AM:

If just specific emails, and not the entire contents, were deleted from the servers, wouldn't that indicate that the disks weren't wiped? Unless they've installed software that wipes specific files, the 'lost' files could probably be found and reconstructed.

But first, you've got to gain access to the servers.

lucifer wrote on April 12, 2007 10:51 AM:

Ya know, you guys have nobody to blame but yourselves.
the occupants of the whitehouse have absolutely no respect for the people of the land whom they are suppossed to serve, lying and cheating and sending you to do thier bidding/dying.
what a bunch of chumps the people are!
whats worse is they know that not enough people care to fix it and punish them so they continue to laugh all the way to the bank.

Chris wrote on April 12, 2007 10:52 AM:

"The stench eminating from this administration is becoming unbearable, and at it's center is Karl Rove. Perhaps it's time for Turd Blossom to have a new nickname. How about Corpse Flower?"

I second that motion!

C 92 wrote on April 12, 2007 10:53 AM:

Remember after the Plame leak that President Bush ordered all staff to undergo mandatory ethics training?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/05/bush.ethics/index.html

"The President has made clear his expectation that each member of his Executive Office of the President (EOP) staff adhere to the spirit as well as the letter of all rules governing ethical conduct for EOP staff," states the memo sent to Bush's staff."

Looks like they've fallen short on both accounts.

Rick T wrote on April 12, 2007 10:53 AM:

Any number of boiler plate email policies exist that would make this very simple for our government employees. Do they not even have a official written policy that spells this out in detail? Every place I have worked for in the past 10 years has had one. And they are not ambiguous.

RFT

Jan wrote on April 12, 2007 10:53 AM:

A "warning" came from Jennifer Farley, a deputy in the White House Office of Intergovernmental Affairs.

Well, I sure hope we will be seeing Jennifer Farley testifying under oath, in public, with a transcript before this is over.

Rusty wrote on April 12, 2007 10:53 AM:

Using the Hatch Act is classic Karl Rove - turn your weakness into a strength. This is unf$#@king believable. I am so ashamed to live in a country that would elect crooks like this that have absolutely no shame, morals, or dignity. It is time to bring the entire government to a halt. If I were in Congress, I’d be pushing ever person I know to stop working on anything that doesn’t involve this investigation. If they are willing to shamelessly lie to the American Public, the media, and the others branches of our government – do you think they have any qualms with attacking Iran? Or destroying our treasury? Or declaring martial law? I pray that I live to see these crooks tried in the world court, and sentenced to spend the rest of their days in jail. Nothing else will substitue. We must show our elected officials that there are consquences for this type of behavior - so that it never, never happens again.

code: regret

psyopswatcher wrote on April 12, 2007 10:54 AM:

This should be simple enough for some hotshot IT's to backtrack from Cabinet Offices. Who RECEIVED emails from the RNC accounts. Contents should determine what Hatch Act violations occurred in each department and agencies.

I hate harping on this, but GSA can't have been the only one to run political programs at lunch.

Blumenthal really laid it out good:

Upending the Mayberry Machiavellis
http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/04/12/bush_destruction/

Tom Betz wrote on April 12, 2007 10:55 AM:

Unless someone has re-written the hard drives on the user and mail server machines with zeroes (or shredded them), these e-mails are not lost, and can be retrieved by forensic means.

The House and Senate Judiciary Committees need to subpoena this hardware YESTERDAY!

Click on my name to see a recommended diary over at Daily Kos covering this fact.

ken melvin wrote on April 12, 2007 10:55 AM:

Bushes define white trash.

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 10:57 AM:

There is a diary on kos that makes a good point- we need to stop repeating how these emails were "lost" and start talking about how they were DESTROYED!

BruceK wrote on April 12, 2007 10:58 AM:

"The stench eminating from this administration is becoming unbearable, and at it's center is Karl Rove. Perhaps it's time for Turd Blossom to have a new nickname. How about Corpse Flower?"

I'd like to see him called something in the neighborhood of Two-Four-Six-Oh-One. (Though probably not that precise number.)

Ethan wrote on April 12, 2007 10:58 AM:

It seems unlikely that all of the emails in question are actually gone. If they were using a commercial server there are backups. If they had computer(s) in-house at the RNC to serve email, they need to be seized.

David Eoll wrote on April 12, 2007 10:58 AM:

"And remember that Karl Rove reportedly uses his RNC-provided account for approximately 95% of his communication."

Then shouldn't 95% of his salary come from Republican donors, instead of taxpayers? Why am I paying this guy's salary?

Jay Severin has a small pen1s wrote on April 12, 2007 11:00 AM:

No wonder our country is in such a mess. These guys were spending all their time working for the RNC.

I'm doubting the main stream media will pick up on this story, however.

Randy wrote on April 12, 2007 11:00 AM:

The White House used these same excuses when they denied acess to Special Prosecuter Fitzgerald. It's not a mistake it's fraud and it should be prosecuted. The question is who will muscle up and take these bullys on, or unfortunately if they will.

Security Code: Muscle

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 11:00 AM:

The Administration showed its disdain for the Hatch Act by hosting political strategy sessions at Agencies (think Lurita Doan's presentation with Scott Jennings at the GSA).

They didn't give a toss about the Hatch Act.

So to argue that the accounts were set up in an 'abundance of caution' for the Hatch Act is downright false.
Posted by: C 92

Excellent, excellent point. Someone needs to bring this up when Bush/Cheney start spouting their lies.

Arkansan wrote on April 12, 2007 11:01 AM:

Another reminder that the “genius” of Karl Rove has never been his political intuition. Karl’s success is because he cheats, breaks the law, and perfectly passes the blame.

What is impossible to understand is why so many commit political and professional suicide to protect him? It has to be blackmail. There is no other logical reason the legions of his minions act outside their own, and their country’s, best interest to keep Karl on his throne.

meander wrote on April 12, 2007 11:01 AM:

The e-mails sent and received by RNC domain (and GWB domain) users might be "gone" (although, as commenters above point out, data has a tendency to stick around on hard drives), but what about those who received of e-mails from kr@rnchq.org and other White House staffers? Perhaps one of the first orders of business is to find out who Rove and others sent e-mail to outside the system (e.g., GSA, DOJ) and request all e-mails received from Rove and etc.

The question of security seems to be missing from the press coverage. In these days where terrorists are EVERYWHERE (boo!) shouldn't all official communications between White House staffers be subject to the highest standards of security? Did RNC servers have that level of security?

JC wrote on April 12, 2007 11:02 AM:

Incredible! Maybe TMP should start reverse engineering this from the resignations. Who else has resigned, been reassigned, quit or been hired since Nov.? Why are they still standing so adamantly behind Gonzales given that he is creating so much heat for them among Democrats and Republicans? Even if their explanation were legitimate, the appearance of impropriety is beginning to hurt. The next attorney general should open an investigation to restore U.S. confidence in the DOJ and the system....O, maybe that answers my question.

mayan wrote on April 12, 2007 11:04 AM:

It seems to me that this is a gift. The violations of the Records Act seems to be a given. The federal government mandates that every federal employee be given annual training regarding the records act and e-mails that conduct government business are clearly included.

To have set up an entire system that does an end-run around it creates, IMHO, an open and shut case. Violations of the Records Act can carry criminal liability. We know from existing e-mails and statements (and the current WH admisstion) that they were conducting official government business regarding the hiring and firing of prosecutors...at minimum. To delete these official records from their personal computers and communication devices, without ensuring their back-up, is almost certainly a major violation.

To me, this is the first solid claim that pierces the WH and Rove. We could look at DOJ and KNEW that stuff was circulating around Rove like flies around feces...but this points squarely to KKKarl and his henchmen who set up and used this system. We may or may not learn of some of the e-mails...but it's their absence...in and of itself...that creates the violation of the Records Act. This doesn't, of course, minimize the possibility of obstruction of justice...it's just that obstruction, to me, would need to have an underlying crime. This, at least for the time, is a more direct approach.

Teemu wrote on April 12, 2007 11:07 AM:

I can understand that emails can be immediately deleted from server, but has anyone detailed what kind of backup tapes or other backup systems RNC uses?

I simply can't believe that they dont have any separate physical backups which could be examined. Of course, it's possible that they don't store older backups, but still, that's something to ask about.

Dan Garfinkel wrote on April 12, 2007 11:08 AM:

Wonder if this qualifies for prosecution under the RICO Act? Sounds like a corrupt organization to me. Minimum, a criminal conspiracy.

TANK1 wrote on April 12, 2007 11:09 AM:

Didn't someone in the RNC claim they saved Rove's e-mails to "protect Karl" ?

If so, I'm sure they monitored and some were deleted.

So who ever saved them also has knowledge of what was not saved. Who decided what to save and what to delete ?

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 11:10 AM:

"...What is impossible to understand is why so many commit political and professional suicide to protect him? It has to be blackmail..."

Karl cut his teeth on database management and data mining. Over the last six years, as a SCI-cleared government employee, he's had access to ALL of the data. Everything. Intel. Corporate records. Government records. Tax records. Phone records (through DOJ/Patriot Act). Voter rolls. Everything.

Don't tell me you don't think he's used it. Remember, he had "the math" for the 2006 election.

Clintonian Craig Livingstone's supposed probe into the FBI files of former Bush I White House workers is quaint compared to what KR@georgewbush.com has been up to.

mayan wrote on April 12, 2007 11:10 AM:

BTW, here's some further information:

Federal records are defined in 44 U.S.C. §3301 and further clarified in NARA regulation 36 CFR §1222.12 as follows:

All books, papers, maps, photographs, machine readable materials, or other documentary materials, regardless of physical form or characteristics, made or received by an agency of the United States government under federal law or in connection with the transaction of public business and preserved or appropriate for preservation by that agency or its legitimate successor as evidence of the organization, functions, policies, decisions, procedures, operations, or other activities of the government or because of the informational value of data in them.

And here's a link to a treasure trove of Records Act information:
http://www.archives.gov/records-mgmt/

mbbsdphil wrote on April 12, 2007 11:10 AM:

Mr. Rove is NOT subject to Hatch Act restrictions. Let's not lose sight of that. Ditto for other top political aides and, presumably, their assistants.

He used RNC computers to avoid having his e-mails read by opponents now and throughout posterity, by not having them catalogued among Presidential Records. He did not use RNC computers in order to avoid breaking the law.

As for Mr. Gonzales' responsibility as White House counsel in setting up protocols for the use of this parallel communications system, he knew little about constitutional law, and virtually nothing about these specific statutes. He was a cooperative loyalist, already in thrall intellectually and personally to Mr. Libby and, especially Mr. Addington. They knew these sorts of laws verbatim. Their fingerprints will be all over the memos relied upon to establish these protocols, or to establish why few were needed.

What are the odds that there's a private signing statement or executive order alleging the unconstitutionality of the Presidential Records Act or enough provisions of it to gut it? WH officials would claim they acted on advice of counsel when failing to implement adequate records retention guidelines. All a misunderstanding. Sorrry. We'll fix it. Trust us.

I would say the odds are that we've uncovered another can of maggots.

kikikowalski wrote on April 12, 2007 11:11 AM:

Even if these staffers were using RNC laptops, how were they connected to the Internet? Were they using a government connection or did the RNC set up a wireless hub for them in Lafayette Park?

If they just plugged into the White House network, then it was a government connection and it was still our taxdollars being used for partisan politicking. And that would absolutely be no different than Al Gore using a White House phone to make a fundraising call.

Did Karl Rove and others use government printers and paper to print out notes, etc.? Additionally, who paid for the office space, desks, chairs, legal pads, pens and other materials being used during this time?

Arkansan wrote on April 12, 2007 11:11 AM:

Last week Rove et al attempted to Rathergate the WH/RNC email issue through a planted story at the Washington Times. That attempted distraction may have revealed some interesting information:

------------------------------------------
"Coptix is tangentially associated with the Republican National Committee (RNC) and had become a topic of interest to left-wing blogs even before this prank. Coptix is affiliated with another Chattanooga-based Web company named Smartech, which is employed by the RNC.

Mr. Rove and other White House officials do use outside e-mail accounts, owned by the RNC, which are hosted on Smartech's Web servers.
**COPIX BACKS UP SOME OF SMARTECH'S INFORMATION, WHICH IS CALLED "BACKUP DNS HOSTING." **(emphasis added, I really wish we could bold here)

http://washingtontimes.com/functions/print.php?StoryID=20070405-114824-8778r

anon wrote on April 12, 2007 11:12 AM:

I'd guess that a few weeks ago the whole RNC communications systems went through an "upgrade" and all the equipment, every sever, every back up drive, and every Blackberry was scrapped for zippier models. You know, a Vista upgrade or whatever. I'd also bet that a private contractor tracked down all the equipment and shredded the disks for, yeah, national security reasons. If they were thinking ahead--and you can bet they were--they kept a few "sanitized" drives around, full of vanilla flavored e-mail that can be offered up when they get hit with subpoenas.

I don't think the administration is going down until their second set of books finds its way out of the backroom of the GOP social club. Their back door communications are one key to their success over the last ten years. I can't seem them being careless with their e-mail.

Code: Animal.

Phil wrote on April 12, 2007 11:14 AM:

What about issuing subpoenas for the hard drives? If they wiped those clean, there's a strong negative inference to be drawn.

Rich wrote on April 12, 2007 11:14 AM:

The lesson of Watergate for these people is that the cover up wasn't comprehensive enough,, not that criminal conduct should be avoided.

C 92 wrote on April 12, 2007 11:15 AM:

mbbsdphil

Right as always.

"...What are the odds that there's a private signing statement or executive order alleging the unconstitutionality of the Presidential Records Act or enough provisions of it to gut it?"

That is what I thought from the beginning. This will track back to the classic Bush stance of "I just don't agree with this, and therefore will ignore it."

Even hacks don't act like this without some sort of policy statement or marching orders. This was a clear conscientious decision from the beginning.

Rove could not have missed the Clinton e-mail issues and the constant barrage of subpoenas and embarrassments rained down by Indiana congressman Dan Burton. He took note and structured the systems to avoid disclosure from the beginning...

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/03/23/whitehouse.email/

Dan Gray wrote on April 12, 2007 11:17 AM:

My money says that Karl Rove and the rest of them have backups of everything. Their egos are too big to abandon all the rich information and history in those tens of thousands of emails. They'll need them to write their memoirs, or -- especially in Rove's case -- as an archive of all the people who Karl needs to punish in the future. Those emails hold a lot of details about who did what to offend the RNC, and Karl would never delete records that are essential to his vendetta mentality. They all have copies of everything.

jeffgee wrote on April 12, 2007 11:17 AM:

But doncha know, it's all about the President getting unfettered advice.

Bill Peterson wrote on April 12, 2007 11:17 AM:

Hmm, so it was an open secret that White House employees should use the RNC email system for everything they didn't want to see the light of day. And 95% of Rove's emails used RNC. Hmm, sounds about right, 95% of Rove's activities should never see the light of day.

Cockroach.

BP

infoshaman wrote on April 12, 2007 11:18 AM:

Why should the American taxpayer provide dime number one for the Bush Presidential Library (abridged)?

Oilwellian wrote on April 12, 2007 11:19 AM:

Did you see Leahy & Schumer on the Senate floor this morning? They're not too happy about this latest Karl Rove tactic.

Something tells me they already have the goods on these criminals in the White House and are relishing their attempts to hide, but wind up digging an even deeper hole for themselves. The more indictments, the better. :D

henk wrote on April 12, 2007 11:19 AM:

You've really got to hand it to these guys. They're good. They can't run government worth a good goddam, but boy when it comes to politics and keeping their sorry asses out of Jail, they are the best.

code word "sheep" what Rove thinks we are.

sexxxyvixxxen wrote on April 12, 2007 11:21 AM:

As a state trooper once told me:

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

Didn't all these users of RNC email domains go to law school or at the very least major in Poly Sci and study the law on some level? Oh yeah most of them except Rover? That explains it. HE'S IGNORANT in a evil kinda way.

chabuka wrote on April 12, 2007 11:24 AM:

Its virtually impossible to erase all traces of these emails...to many places that automatically store information on hard drives...this is pure and simple, "obstruction of justice" an impeachable offence....even having "secret government emails" conducting government busines "in private" is a violation...if not a high crime..then at least a gross misdemeanor

Angered Taxpayer wrote on April 12, 2007 11:24 AM:

mbbsdphil are you high?

You said:
"Mr. Rove is NOT subject to Hatch Act restrictions. . . He used RNC computers to avoid having his e-mails read by opponents now and throughout posterity, by not having them catalogued among Presidential Records. He did not use RNC computers in order to avoid breaking the law."

How can you say this?

He knows if he uses the .gov email, any and all of his evil domination plans can be turned over to investigators.

He also knows that if he uses the RNC servers, they can say that the Presidential Records Act doesn't apply to the personal email accounts and delete all evidence in cases like this.

If this were Clinton, the FBI would have already confiscated all the email servers, computers and laptops.

If anyone in Congress had any balls, they would be on the phone with the authorities NOW!

porgy tirebiter wrote on April 12, 2007 11:25 AM:

Ah, once again in a different form, the Incompetence Dodge. These guys would even embarrass Nixon.

KR's Unexplained Personal Wealth wrote on April 12, 2007 11:28 AM:

Are we ready to start looking at Karl Rove's considerable personal wealth and its' origins?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/2/10177/11404

TorranaTony wrote on April 12, 2007 11:30 AM:

Wow, what a wasted 80 minutes, 'cause I can only find 1 story (on cbs's website). Everyone else is BURYING it.
WHY?

pj in jesusland wrote on April 12, 2007 11:30 AM:

U.S. Code, TITLE 44 > CHAPTER 22 > § 2202

§ 2202. Ownership of Presidential records

The United States shall reserve and retain complete ownership, possession, and control of Presidential records; and such records shall be administered in accordance with the provisions of this chapter . . .

TITLE 44 > CHAPTER 22 > § 2203
§ 2203. Management and custody of Presidential records . . .

(c) During his term of office, the President may dispose of those of his Presidential records that no longer have administrative, historical, informational, or evidentiary value if—
(1) the President obtains the views, in writing, of the Archivist concerning the proposed disposal of such Presidential records; and
(2) the Archivist states that he does not intend to take any action under subsection (e) of this section.

-- With 95 percent of Rove's e-mails going out over RNC's e-mail system he HAD to be doing official business on RNC computers. So how is his deliberate attempt to bypass Executive Office computer security regulations NOT a violation of USC Title 44, Chapter 22???

How can Rove be so involved in disclosing names of covert agents, bypassing e-mail security, stacking US Attorney's offices and still hold a senior Presidential advisor's job? The evidence that he is corrupting our Constitution and our laws is damning.

mbbsdphil wrote on April 12, 2007 11:32 AM:

Raising the Hatch Act in this instance is great. First, Rove's Little Shoppe of Ho's knows they're exempt. Second, it deflates real Hatch Act problems Congress is investigating, such as the presentations made by Rove's Shoppe to Lurita Doan's GSA - and apparently many others since at least 2002!

Third, the "lack of guidance" storyline puts the blame on the guy responsible for creating the guidelines: the guy already twisting in the wind over at the DOJ. Inexperienced White House counsel Alberto Gonzales.

rickster wrote on April 12, 2007 11:33 AM:

Most Blackberry server admins know how to use the various logs on BB servers to identify origin and delivery of email.

So, even if the email is "gone", it's path is not.

And - since BB email passes through BB servers owned and managed by RIM - they too have a record.

Is it any wonder that our government stepped in awhile back, when the Blackberry service was about to be shut down for patent violations - and told the judge that the Federal government couldn't operate without the BB service running?

Garey Mills wrote on April 12, 2007 11:34 AM:

Server administrators usually run nightly backups of the contents of the server. The email accounts RNC offered were probably IMAP, because the staffers probably didn't want the emails to be found on their personal computers. Has anybody gone beyond taking their word for it and found out whether the sys admins kept backups of the mailboxes on the RNC servers?

hmbnancy wrote on April 12, 2007 11:35 AM:

Why do we have laws about impeachable offenses if we aren't going to use them?

Accountability??

C 92 wrote on April 12, 2007 11:36 AM:

mmbdsphil is right that most White House employees (i.e. those political appointees who draw their salary from Congressional appropriations to the "White House Office" division of the "Executive Office of the President") are not themselves Hatch-restricted. The "WHO" staff are the politicals we've come to know - the Press Office people, Rove's shop, other senior advisors. Of course there are others who work at the White House who are subject to the Hatch Act. Like the staff of the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Like the Office of Administration - the people who run the White House's computers.

For the exempt people, like Rove that doesn't mean, however, that other attributes of the Hatch Act don't apply. Or that they can disregard other rules. Rove can't spend government dollars on elections. Rove's individual status does not transfer to other employees - that's why the meetings at the Agencies (a la GSA) were illegal. J Scott Jennings could advertise a strategy session with whomever he wants -- but
Agency appointees could not legally come -- their conditions of employment prohibit it.

The flexibilites of Hatch in regard to the White House allow staff to gravitate in the necessary political activities that attach to the President. Hatch-exempt White House staff can meet with Party officials. Schedule C political appointees at Agencies cannot. White House staff can attend the political fundraiser that could be bundled into a Presidential trip to Phoenix that might also include a visit to the boarder. Non-WH staff cannot.

The distinctions and permissions are clear, but go relatively unpoliced. And you know what happends when this crowd is in charge.

cromulant wrote on April 12, 2007 11:37 AM:

So where are the enterprising hackers when you need them?

cromulant wrote on April 12, 2007 11:40 AM:

And by the way, Patrick Fitzgerald was aware of this RNC email traffic and his evidence (if any) lies in a sealed brief. Whatever happened with that? What does it take to unseal it? And what happened to Sealed V Sealed indictments which were generated?

OK wrote on April 12, 2007 11:45 AM:

Two days ago I commented on this blog:

"The Rovians don't have time to do their jobs these days. They're too busy destroying documents."

The evidence of White House/RNC criminality seems to have mysteriously disappeared -- again. How do you suppose that keeps happening?

So many questions that demand answers.

sdougherty wrote on April 12, 2007 11:46 AM:

What is the Records Act referred to in the quote from Stanzel?

skeptik wrote on April 12, 2007 11:49 AM:

the dog ate my emails.

does anyone take these excuses seriously?

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 11:51 AM:

I wish the media would SHUT UP about Don Imus and move on to the hard news like this. This story is getting buried. Argggggggggggggggh! This is how these corrupt assholes have managed to hang on. Distract the idiots with Imus or Anna Nicole or Duke Lacrosse or whatever is the latest sensational outrage. Meanwhile guys like Rove just go on rapping and dancing without a care in the world. Do your job media and stop pandering the fuckwits. Expose these crooks who have taken a shit on the Constitution!

pj in jesusland wrote on April 12, 2007 11:51 AM:

sdougherty,

The Records Act referred to by Stanzel is the Presidentl Records Act, US code Title 44, Chapter 22.

Busta wrote on April 12, 2007 11:51 AM:

Clearly, all of us are outraged. But we are the minority. The MSM is either taking this lightly, or is sweeping it under the rug. Everyone here has something to say about it, but isn't there something We, the People, can DO about it?

Can TPM put out an APB for its readers to write their congressperson or something? It is SO FAR PAST TIME for something to be done. Just thinking about the sheer number of crimes that have obviously been committed but for whatever reason can't be acted on is mind-numbing, and that, I'm sure, is part of the plan. Get us so flustered and flabbergasted as to leave us with our jaws hanging open. Let's take action!

And I must second a comment from a reader the other day -- can we stop posting the security words? Conserve bandwidth.

mbbsdphil wrote on April 12, 2007 11:52 AM:

Angered Taxpayer, read the post, please.

Mr. Rove is the President's senior political adviser; he is not subject to Hatch Act restrictions on federal employees that prohibit engaging in partisan activity during the normal work day. Other restrictions on the partisan political use of federal government property would apply.

Mr. Rove can't avoid using all telecomms. I maintain that he uses non-official ones where possible, to avoid creating a "paper trail" that could be used against him. He has honed those skills since he entered politics in high school. He may be better at it than anyone.

As you and others point out, Mr. Rove is a partisan's partisan, a political sociopath who believes three things: The only "bad" dirty trick is the one he hasn't thought of yet. Not getting caught is the same as not lying or breaking the law. He never gets caught. He is Mr. Bush's Professor Moriarty. Who's our Sherlock Holmes?

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 11:53 AM:

Remember, the United States is a nation where torture is acceptable and citizens' e-mail, phone calls, and library checkouts are reviewed by the government.

Should we really be outraged over e-mail?

mayan wrote on April 12, 2007 11:58 AM:

My head is exploding from the ABSENCE of this story on MSM. Yeah, yeah...there were some articles in the NY Times and one can find some references on the web but just about every MSM main webpage fails to indicate that this story exists or has it tucked away under misleading headlines.

I mean, I know that the Passion Play of Don Imus is very, VERY important, etc. but one would think that the agonal breathing of our democratic republic would register more than a few passing references on the last page of the sports section.

Maybe, the Congressionals are keeping it quiet and not pushing the media on it. I see that Sampson is coming back for a "voluntary" interview. So maybe Leahy et.al. are sitting on some evidence that they don't want to spring until next week when abu Gonzo comes forward. Maybe.

party-of-one wrote on April 12, 2007 12:00 PM:

Cromulant's question about implications for the Fitzgerald investigation is an important one. Also, shouldn't guidance on compliance have come from the White House Counsel in the early weeks of the administration. More evidence of Gonzales's competince?

SteveW wrote on April 12, 2007 12:02 PM:

Posted by: C 92
Date: April 12, 2007 10:47 AM

"...One former White House political aide said he vaguely recalled receiving
guidance about sending e-mail on an RNC-provided Blackberry and using a
gwb43.com e-mail account, but he had clearer memories of getting "a billion and
one" White House ethics briefings.

The e-mail instructions, from Sara Taylor, director of White House political
affairs, were meant to help aides juggle dual sets of communications devices to
comply with the Hatch Act and the Presidential Records Act, and to use the RNC
equipment and accounts "only for political activity..."

http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0407/040907ol.htm

SARAH TAYLOR, ROVE'S DEPUTY RESIGNED LAST WEEK.

COINCIDENCE?

C 92 makes an excellent point here. First Ralston resigns from Rove's office, now Taylor and all the blame falls on them and then the investigation generally goes away. Where has Ralston gone? Where has Taylor gone or where is she going?

Rove sheds these people like the snake he is....Why is this jackass allowed to aid in destroying what shreds of democracy we have left? Who the hell is he that even the Dems cower to this slug? The Dems need to grow some balls, call Rove in for public hearings ON THE RECORD, under oath, and listen to him spin. Arlen Specter and Fielding are attempting to set the ground rules for a "private meeting with a small group of Congress and Rove will not be forced to answer under oath, though they will allow for a transcript. Wow, big fucking deal....gee, aren't they being magnanimous here? Why would the Dems go along with this as I've heard Schumer say the Dems may be willing to compromise on this issue and allow Rove to speak 1) in private 2) not under oath. Why concede the oath and why concede public accountability and public hearings?????

He's like Rush Limbaugh, but with an even greater firewall. Anyone remember Limbaugh's interview on Letterman years ago? He wilted like the intellectually dwarf that is Rush Limbaugh and this is precisely why Limbaugh no longer allows to be interviewed. Just maybe Rove isn't the genius he's been portrayed to be and with the bright lights shining on his bald head, I'm betting we'll see the little turd sweat.

The Democratic leadership and/or the base needs to put pressure on the leadership and let them know we want them to fight and go for the jugular here. What would the Republicans do to the Dems if this was say....Clinton??? Well, we already know what they'd do and whatever Bill Clinton or his administration did or didn't do, certainly wasn't even in the same sphere of corruption engulfing this administration; these are real and not imagined or ginned-up scandals.

cl-Oregon Girl wrote on April 12, 2007 12:07 PM:

Perhaps someone should spend time hunting around for backup tapes etc. Deleted may not be deleted. Any sys admins out there work for this crew of fools? Anybody store backup tapes off sight etc?

Let's get cracking -- time's a wasting. Let's find out what ol Karl had to say.

My guess is that some of that stuff is still out there. Remember, this is the gang that couldn't shoot straight.

TorranaTony wrote on April 12, 2007 12:08 PM:

I don't think upon reflection, anyone expects KR and company to NOT conduct political activities at the WH. What EVERYONE should expect is that records are captured, and security procedures are followed, even if it may not be politically expedient.
Rovey buts himself in an ethical bubble, where his actions encourage others to make poor ethical decisions, but he can stay insulated.
There's a word for that in law isn't there?
Premeditation?
codeword shirt, as in black and white striped

rmadilo wrote on April 12, 2007 12:09 PM:

Okay, there is some confusion about how email works and what servers might retain copies of an email. This is boring, but important.

First: when you write an email, the default is that a copy is saved to your local personal computer. I don't think I have ever deleted these emails. I'm a geek, know how to do it, and never do. The average person probably never even considers these saved emails, so if someone is in the habit of deleting them, that is strange. If a bunch of folks have a pattern of doing this, it is obviously by design. If the WH Staff have separate equipment, there would be no reason for the owners to delete anything, and the data should be there. If WH email is on those machines, it means that records were not kept properly, and maybe there is some record act violation.

Now the email gets sent. What happens? It usually goes to an email server either on a local network or the internet. This is an SMTP server, where you send all your email. Here is the important part: the email only sits on this server for a short time, from seconds to a week at the most. Nobody ever backs up this data because it changes all the time. By accident, you might get lucky, but it depends entirely on how the server is run. A smart IT person would avoid backing up this information, as you would never restore it in case of a failure.

However, this SMTP server could easily be configured to make a copy of everything passing through it, and at the very least a log of every transaction (metadata) could also be maintained. A normal backup process would make copies of this metadata. If the RNC really wanted to archive all email related to certain accounts, this would be like a two hour job to setup, and individual users would be unable to even know that the process was taking place.

After the senders SMTP server, the email goes to the receivers POP3 server. The setup can vary alot, some allow users to download copies and delete the copy on the server. Others maintain copies on the server so that you can access all your email from any equipment you use.

A normal backup script would backup this data, but it might be hard to restore it in the future. Data in an Exchange Server might be easier or harder to backup, hard to say.

jeffgee wrote on April 12, 2007 12:17 PM:

We've come a long way from Watergate and the famous Rose Mary Woods attempt to explain the 18 minute gap by contorting her body to show how her foot could hit the foot pedal while she answered the phone behind her. Nobody believed it then.
Iran-Contra had ProfsNotes and shredders.
Now emails are routed thru the RNC and deleted. Digital confetti.
Still the same deception.

BKiemer wrote on April 12, 2007 12:19 PM:

I've worked as a computer analyst for over 20 years in banking, engineering, and web sales software.

You NEVER, EVER delete emails. You back them up and save them off site because you nver know when you may need them for business or legal reasons.

If they were deleted, they were deleted to cover more than political corespndences and they were deleted on purpose.

Hum!

cv wrote on April 12, 2007 12:20 PM:

Soon we will find out that the reason the emails were lost was that the hard disks on the server were accidentally removed from the machines and mistakenly stored in a cabinet that was unfortunately left under a giant metal press which was unintentionally turned on. And also exploded.

Dennis wrote on April 12, 2007 12:26 PM:

After all the exposure is said and done, no one will go to jail for any of it. No one will be held "accountable".

If the Democrats were smart (which they aren't), they'd make the most of this propaganda opportunity - only it isn't propaganda, it's fact. The Democrats should keep pounding and pounding and pounding this "fact" to the American people.

You don't have to be a blind conservative not to see it, just an ignorant one to deny it.

bryan wrote on April 12, 2007 12:30 PM:

Security Code: wrong

Is this the 18 minutes of missing tape. With all the suspected illegality this administration is engaged in, and assuming that Rove et al believed they had some kind of privacy on the RNC email system. The RNC email will likely reveal tons of wrong doing.

Maybe one of the more adept techies that frequent this blog can lay out a procedure for obtaining the information from the computers and server and provide some guidance to the lawmakers as to what to actually ask for in the subpoenas. It is not likely that the senators and congressmen investigating this have any idea about servers, POP3, SMTP etc. They will need some help in drafting the subpeonas.

E-dog9 wrote on April 12, 2007 12:32 PM:

Don't think that these emails are actually gone. Over 50 people with accounts sending messages back and forth? Clearly there are "fragments" of residual conversations on some computer somewhere. Perhaps we'll be lucky enough to get a complete email string of back and forth. At some point, we get an explicit picture of what they were saying to each other. Perhaps not complete, but explicit.

Code Word: Please

webdems wrote on April 12, 2007 12:35 PM:

1. Why does Karl Rove still have a security clearance?

2. Why haven't federal marshals seized the servers?

3. Are you providing cover for Congress to go ape on this matter? It's much easier for our representatives to demand action when we are demanding it from them. A paper letter is worth a hundred e-mails, remember. Ten minutes for you to compose a simple letter, print and mail it. Worth a hundred e-mails.

E-dog9 wrote on April 12, 2007 12:37 PM:

Enough already! Its time for a "hacker" to do some rat f*cking on the RNC servers. Get a few messages, and post them for all to see. Whats that about the life span of something once its posted on the web?

Codeword: fact

Dan S wrote on April 12, 2007 12:42 PM:

I am an IT professional working at a Fortune 50 company. Some comments on the above:

Many large corporations have a "document retention policy" in effect. It's actually a document DESTRUCTION policy. (This became especially popular after the Enron debacle).

Prior to instituting a DRP, the usual behavior is to "keep all documents except what choose to you throw away" With a DRP in place, this changes to "throw away all documents except what you choose to keep".

The DRP is enforced in several ways. Corporate communications plays a major role. So does IT, where email systems are modified to enforce the DRP automatic document deletion policy. A smart company will extend the DRP to its backup regime as well. Selective backup is employed so only "must keep" documents are backed up permanently. other documents are backed up only for the retention period, then those backups are overwritten or destroyed.

The procedure is not foolproof- many emails would be recoverable by forensic techniques even with a strict DRP in place and selective email backups. But a strict DRP will have a significant impact.

The RNC Document Retention Policy in 2004 (delete everything older than 30 days) is unusually strict compared to other policies I have seen. Looks like they have something to hide. If they did not keep backups of individual users' mailboxes, it may be very difficult to recover mail from the 2004 period.

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 12:55 PM:

"They say they have not been preserved. I don't believe that!" Leahy shouted from the Senate floor.

"You can't erase e-mails, not today. They've gone through too many servers," said Leahy, D-Vt. "Those e-mails are there, they just don't want to produce them. We'll subpoena them if necessary."

karl rove wrote on April 12, 2007 1:01 PM:

we have had enough.
we start locking up liberals next week cause we know you don't have the balls to stand up to us.
what are you gonna do about it?

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 1:03 PM:

From the AP:
"Democrats say the firings might have been improper, but that probe yielded a weightier question: Whether White House officials such as political adviser Karl Rove are intentionally conducting sensitive official presidential business via non-governmental accounts to evade a law requiring preservation — and eventual disclosure — of presidential records."
Now we're getting somewhere! We're entering Watergate territory folks! Better get ready for a wild ride. Issue those subpoenas Leahey and get down to business!

mbbsdphil wrote on April 12, 2007 1:09 PM:

Please Note: 44 USC sec. 2203(c)(1) requires the President to confer with the National Archivist when, during his term, the president decides to destroy his records. The Archivist's other duties are to maintain and preserve federal records, from original examples of the US Constitution to the Magic Bullet and President Kennedy's [sic] brain tissue to Mr. Bush's memo.

Shortly after the 109th Congress convened, in early 2005, the new Senate confirmed Mr. Bush's rushed change of Archivists, from the respected John Carlin to the controversial Allen Weinstein. Mr. Carlin had abruptly resigned in 2005, without explanation and before the end of his statutory ten-year term.

Allen is an expert on Soviet espionage and Soviet archives. He remains controversial.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040517/wiener
http://hnn.us/articles/10099.html

TANK1 wrote on April 12, 2007 1:33 PM:

From Think Progress-

"On Friday, National Journal -

The former White House official, speaking on background, said that although the RNC had a policy to purge e-mails after a short period of time, Rove’s e-mails on its system and those of a few other White House aides in sensitive positions were preserved by the RNC “to protect Karl.”

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/26/rnc-emails-waxman/

So are they lost or were destroyed recently ?

Star wrote on April 12, 2007 1:42 PM:

The Hatch Act states in part:

The Hatch Act (5 U.S.C. §§ 7321 – 7326) generally permits most federal employees to actively participate in political management and political campaigns. Employees are prohibited, however, from engaging in political activity while in uniform, on duty, in a government building, or in a government vehicle. Political activity is defined as “an activity directed toward the success or failure of a political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group.” 5 C.F.R. § 734.101.

We are given a picture of employees going back and forth between White House accounts and RNC accounts depending on the type of business they deem it to be. How can they do both when they aren't allowed to do anything political on government time and/or property.

US8 wrote on April 12, 2007 1:45 PM:

I just finished reviewing an Office of Special Counsel power point presentation on the Hatch Act. It is interesting that the act specifically excempts government employees paid for out of an appropriation for the Executive Office of the President, or those appointed by the President and Senate Confirmed. The only caveat is that the costs of such activities cannot be paid for with money derived from the U.S. Treasury. With that it appears that Rove and Company weren't actually covered by the Hatch Act. Which begs the question, why are they saying that they set up the parallel email system to avoid running afoul of it? Thats the rub.

StephenH wrote on April 12, 2007 2:01 PM:

Nixon said that failing to destroy the tapes was his biggest mistake. After he resigned, he tried to take the tapes with him, but Ford stopped the truck as it was leaving the White House. Congress then passed a law making them public property, but they are still being fought over today. Even now, 33 years later, only 7% have been disclosed to the public.
Don't expect the fight over these emails to be resolved easily or soon. Nevertheless, just like that infamous 18-minute gap, they will come to symbolize the willful corruption and bad faith of this adminsitration.

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 2:03 PM:

"why are they saying that they set up the parallel email system to avoid running afoul of it?"

As you probably know...
because they set up parallel email systems to avoid the Presidential Records Act, and could care less about the Hatch Act.

Ah, what assurance is there that none of these emails were transmitted to foreign interests, or their agents?
Or that these email channels weren't also used to circumvent other conflict of interest guideline for purposes of personal financial gain?

Making the penalty more painful than the profits are rewarding is an important PUBLIC SERVICE that those in oversight positions provide for the ETHICALLY CHALLENGED.
Why do the Republicans that love America leave their party to be run by the Republicans that hate her?

StephenH wrote on April 12, 2007 2:21 PM:

Bush says, "If Al-Qaeda is calling you, we want to know why!"

However, if Bin Laden is emailing Carl Rove at his preffered RNC enmail adress, we will never know why because he just 'cleaned out' his account.

Why does Carl Rove get to talk to Al-Qaeda without any government oversight, while the rest of us can't?

Sharon A wrote on April 12, 2007 2:58 PM:

I bet ol' Poindexter has all these communications on his big brother info harvester.

editor wrote on April 12, 2007 3:11 PM:

I can imagine that, on further investigation, all the servers and computers at RNC headquarters have been recently replaced with new, fancy ones and the old ones systematically dismantled and pulverized.

"Oh, gee. Sorry."

Anonymous wrote on April 12, 2007 3:28 PM:

Isn't this the same White House that insists it can spy legally on all of us, look at our electronic messages w/o a warrant, tap our phones w/o a warrant and hold us as enemy combatants w/o habeus corpus? With so much technology available to them to make us the enemy, it is not surprising that they have used this same technology to destroy proof of their own criminality.

lestatdelc wrote on April 12, 2007 3:35 PM:

SO claiming that they wrote all these no missing (and the ones we already have) emails about the firing of US Attorney's on the outside email accounts, because they didn't want to violate the Hatch Act mean that this is therefore a tacit admission that they attorney's were fired for political reasons and not performance ones?

If the discussions were about actual performance reasons, those would be nonpolitical therefore "legitimate" discussions that would then HAVE to be conducted through proper administration channels (and email accounts) which demand proper document/electronic capture and archiving?

If they used outside email because it was "political" and therefore didn't want to violate the Hatch Act ergo, this is an admission they were fired for political reasons.

Ann in AZ wrote on April 12, 2007 3:39 PM:

Yeah, yeah, and I may have been born at night, but not last night. These suckers were transmitting political e-mail on government time and using the same system to do government business that they didn't want to be archived like regular government business per the law of the land. But IIRC, Rove came up with an e-mail that he said didn't get archived in the normal way long after he was supposed to have provided it to Pat Fitzgerald in the Libby case. In the same way, I bet if they needed to retrieve a certain e-mail, they could find it or provide a copy of it. I think they may just need to search a little harder. They didn't mention their backups did they? They just said the e-mails had been deleted. They're just hoping Congress will take no for an answer and not question it. Let's hope Congress doesn't fall for that scam.

lestatdelc wrote on April 12, 2007 3:40 PM:

Ugh:

"SO claiming that they wrote all these no missing..."

Should read:

"So claiming that they wrote all these now missing..."

Security word = fire

As in FIRE Bush, Rove, et al

nulla bona wrote on April 12, 2007 4:05 PM:

Time to get Fitzgerald in on it re the Libby case and related grand jury investigation; he ran into deleted emails from Cheney's office and now this. I believe it is enough to base a continued investigation into the whereabouts of these and Plame emails regarding potential obstruction and/or perjury, and who outed plame.

ahem wrote on April 12, 2007 5:04 PM:

"The email accounts RNC offered were probably IMAP, because the staffers probably didn't want the emails to be found on their personal computers."

Actually, I think it was a plain ol' POP3 server with the option to keep messages on the server (that would be deleted after 30 days) or have them deleted after downloading.

It was that slapdash an operation.

(Why do I think this? There's a pop.smartechcorp.net server running POP on port 110. But no imap.smartechcorp.net server, or any mail.smartechcorp.net server running an IMAP daemon on port 143.)

And according to WaPo, the 'new' policy is to use RNC emails but keep a copy for potential archiving after oversight by White House lawyers. That's fucked up. If you want to do RNC business, walk out the door and go to RNC HQ.

otob wrote on April 12, 2007 6:28 PM:

hahahaha....hilarous.

whizkid wrote on April 12, 2007 10:13 PM:

With each passing day it seems more and more likely that four or five good generals from the Pentagon will march into the WH and kick Chimpy and dead-eye out the backdoor, with President Pelosi in charge until 1/20/09.
Honest to Christ, it's that serious.

Code: army.

How's that for irony

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