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Snow Spins! And He Misses!
How sharper than a serpent's tooth, the loss of message discipline.
One of the things we've been highlighting since Sunday's briefing on Iranian meddling in Iraq is the reliance on innuendo instead of fact. Remember that Bush administration had delayed the briefing out of fear of overstating its case and calling attention to its past history of inaccurate statements about intelligence.
As a result, the administration relied on anonymous military officials to present Iranian-made weapons, but relied on a chain of inferences to make the case that "the highest levels of the Iranian government" were involved. So the problem is a lack of clarity as to the actual significance of what was presented. Hence Gen. Peter Pace's agnosticism.
Today in his briefing, Tony Snow saw the wages of all that.
Snow, faced with a direct question about what the administration is in fact alleging about Iran, whiffed badly. He said that the "central fact" was that the explosives were Iranian-made, even though what matters is why those weapons are in Iraq, and who's using them.
Everything else is a "process argument," he said:
It's now being developed into a process argument that overlooks the key fact: weaponry made its way from Iran to Iraq and it's killing Americans.
Wow: a failure of bamboozlement. Unless the administration gets specific about what it's in fact saying, expect a lot more "process arguments" in the future.
Comments (28)
Hoppy wrote on February 13, 2007 2:47 PM:Tsk, tsk! Don't we all know that weapons don't kill? People do? Tony needs to undergo a Chinese style re-education program, so he can get back on message.
Halcyon wrote on February 13, 2007 2:53 PM:I'm sure it's been brought up elsewhere, but if those arms that we've had pictures floating around are of Iranian manufacture, why do they have our letters and numbers instead of Farsi?
ebw wrote on February 13, 2007 2:56 PM:How many times will the American people, including the cowardly Congress & toady Main-stream Media continued to be duped by the dishonest Bush regime?
1. How do we know that these weapons were actually produced by Iran? How do we know that the US (and, our Mideast task-master Israel) did not plant these weapons in order to set-up Iran?
2. How do we know that the Bush regime is not lying like they lied in the lead-up to their Iraq fiasco?
3. How do we know what deaths & maiming that Iran might be "responsible for" versus what the corrupt Bush regime is actually responsible for?
Isn't it time to remove the delusionary-shades from our eyes and confront this insane Bush regime?
Isn't it time to question why the Knesset defines our Mideast foreign policy?
Isn't it time to opt for sane minds (e.g. Webb, Feingold, Kennedy, etc.) to assess the situation, instead of leaving our fate to the traitors & liars & incompetents Bush, Cheney, Rice & Rove (with Gates along for the ride)?
Please write to Congress asking them to commence impeachment hearings to put a stop to the insanity before we face WW3!
FlipYrWhig wrote on February 13, 2007 3:03 PM:It's amazing that they're still running the ol' bait-and-switch between the name of the country and the government that runs said country. See also previous claims about how "Iraq" harbored Zarqawi. "Weapons from Iran" sounds sinister, because it appears to suggest that the Iranian *government* was involved, when actually the claim means only that the geographical territory of Iran was traversed along the way. Blink and you just might miss it. At least that's what they're hoping.
jaimie wrote on February 13, 2007 3:05 PM:The English numbers and letters are needed to meet international arms trade standards. It means that the Iranians could sell the stuff (perfectly legally) to international arms merchants and from there, well, welcome to the wonderful world of arms trading!
cervantes wrote on February 13, 2007 3:06 PM:Since it is a field led by Americans the military briefers certainly know this. Thus they can have no real evidence that the arms were provided by the Iranian government. Could just as easily come from Jordon through a broker. All that missing CPA cash buys a lot of weapons.
Actually I've not seen any evidence to even prove that they are really Iranian manufacture. The purposeful mislabeling of arms is engaged in by many makers and dealers, including American, so as to make their tracing a practical impossibility.
Anyone can stencil Farsi or English.
One thing of which I am 100% certain is that U.S. made weapons are being used to kill American troops in Iraq, and furthermore that the importation of these weapons to Iraq was authorized at the highest levels of the U.S. government.
So we should attack ourselves.
matts s wrote on February 13, 2007 3:08 PM:I am sorry, but the Knesset (read that as Israel, read that as Jews) does not define our Mideast foreign policy. Ask yourself why you think that the Administration listens to Israel when it clearly does not listen to anyone else.
jsh26 wrote on February 13, 2007 3:11 PM:What's your point, Matt?
jsh26 wrote on February 13, 2007 3:12 PM:What's your point, Matt?
DallasNE wrote on February 13, 2007 3:13 PM:On one level Tony Snow is correct when based on the concept of "don't ask, don't tell". The problem for Snow is that they are asking. But he is holding up the "don't tell" side. Snow's confusion is that don't ask, don't tell covers another set of circumstances (right or wrong).
Tony, nobody is saying that some weapons made in Iran are not slipping into Iraq. That is a given. What we need to know, in order to shut off more of those weapons getting into Iraq, what is the supply line that feeds these weapons into Iraq?
What we heard from the unnamed military people in the Green Zone was basically a repeat of the "aluminum tubes" claim from 4 1/2 years ago. Only this time the "tubes" are not for nuclear weapons but mere shaped charges that blow through armor. Quite a come-down, but still a serious charge. But hardly the point. The process is the point; how to they make it from Iran into a roadside bomb? The question is not going away Tony.
roooth wrote on February 13, 2007 3:16 PM:Matt,
Wrong, unfortunately.
This administration listens more closely to the people behind 9/11, the Saudis, than it does to anyone else.
The Saudis have been financing American deaths for decades, but as long as they profit the Bush Family, nothing will be done about it.
JM wrote on February 13, 2007 3:21 PM:The only fair thing to do is to take a random sample of all weaponry in use in Iraq, determine the actual countries of origin of those weapons, and then create comparable powerpoint presentations which allege the knowledge and involvement of the respective country governments.
az wrote on February 13, 2007 3:23 PM:Oh good lord (whichever one you like) Matt, "blame the Jews"? Again? You are as redundant as Bush is stupid. There is no conspiracy because there is NO policy. Israel did not get Bush to start this whole failure, he did. He wanted to piss in Sadam's cheerios, so he did. Bush didn't think any farther than that. Cheyney took the ball once Bush got bored, probably 5 mins after the war started as his attention span isn't much longer than that. If Israel was involved, it would have been handled better and for less money.
Node of Evil wrote on February 13, 2007 3:29 PM:Perhaps the insurgents orderd their weapons online:
http://diomil.ir/en/amig.aspx?search_id=morar
(site takes a minute or two to load, be patient)
if you login with mjohnson/mjohnson you'll get an idea of how easy that might be (I'm sure they call to confirm your order, so you may not want to go that far...). Anyways, amig apprently makes fuses that work in the mortars, as well as rounds themselves, although the pictures on their website don't match those from the powerpoint presentation.
theorajones wrote on February 13, 2007 3:58 PM:Good lord, I'm sure there are some guns of American manufacture in Iraq. In fact, I'm sure there are quite a lot--I'm sure we've had some arms depots robbed, and I'm also sure there are some Milo Minderbender types who are selling things off. Not to mention, um, all the private contractors who we've got ZERO control over. Wonder how many of their weapons are leaking out.
What a stupid argument. I mean, we find a colt .45 in Iraq, should we declare war on Texas? I don't see how that would help us win. Same with Iran.
Clavis wrote on February 13, 2007 4:28 PM:One thing of which I am 100% certain is that U.S. made weapons are being used to kill American troops in Iraq, and furthermore that the importation of these weapons to Iraq was authorized at the highest levels of the U.S. government.
So we should attack ourselves.
Posted by: cervantes
I think that pretty much says it all.
Snow says the "key fact" is where the weapons were manufactured. Well, that's good enough for me! Why should we bother investigating further, now that we know the "key fact"?
What a supercilious scumbag Tony Snow is.
TheraP wrote on February 13, 2007 4:46 PM:"weaponry made its way"
I picture these little weapons, like robots, simply "making their way" from Iran to Iraq.
Like a tiny line of robots. They have their own "mind," their own volution, their own means of transport.
Little weapons on the march!
DallasNE wrote on February 13, 2007 5:41 PM:About a month ago an attack in Najaf left 5 Americans dead. Later we learn that those doing the killing wore American military uniforms, carried American made weapons and spoke English.
This kind of shoots down Snow's comment that what matters most is where the weapons are made. Earth to Tony, what matter is the supply route those weapons took and not the country of origin. So, just get a grip Tony.
Unmitigated Audacity wrote on February 13, 2007 6:10 PM:Perhaps Mr. Snowjob should be reminded of the old Repug chestnut - weapons don't kill, people do. The world is awash in weapons and people who will sell them to the highest bidder. Certainly Iraq has been a veritable arms bazaar extraordinaire since the invasion. And why assume that the Iraqi insurgents are incapable of manufacturing these themselves? Its not high tech. Shaped charges have been around since WWI. More pathetic BS from the masters of it, for the consumption by mentally challenged among us.
freepatriot wrote on February 13, 2007 6:39 PM:what kind of fool would believe george bush anyway ???
george bush is a KNOWN LIAR
kkkarl rove committed treason by outing a CIA NOC Agent in July of 2003
george bush said he would fire ANYBODY who outed Valerie Plame
novakula just testified that kkkarl rove was his source
I haven't seen george bush attempt to fire kkkarl
why would anybody believe a fucking thing that comes out of george bush's mouth ???
ebw wrote on February 13, 2007 7:23 PM:Matt,
Of course, the Knesset as the dim-witted Bush in its' pocket... For example:--
--- Extract ---
..."... "If there's a starting point for George W. Bush's attachment to Israel, it's the day in late 1998, when he stood on a hilltop where Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount, and, with eyes brimming with tears, read aloud from his favorite hymn, 'Amazing Grace.' He was very emotional. He brought Israel back home with him in his heart. I think he came away profoundly moved." ..."... - Ray McGovern, "Bush and Cheney Playing Role of Kevorkian for Israel"
Refer to:-- http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/021307M.shtml
Bush is an emotional dud and an intellectual zero-- incapable of seeing where & when he is being manipulated-- which he is, quite often, to our nation's peril.
guyermo wrote on February 13, 2007 7:31 PM:You know...I bet a lot more Russian weapons have made it into Iraq and are killing even more American troops and Iraqi civilians.
and an aside...what ever happened to the 'new Iraqi flag' that the Administration rolled out? I remember its huge release, but I don't remember it ever being used.
bryan saxton wrote on February 13, 2007 8:55 PM:The explosives being used to kill Americans in Iraq today are no different than the ones being used in 2004, 2005 and 2006. Where did they come from? Loo no further than the 380 tons of powerful explosives that were stored in bunkers at Al Qaqaa, Iraq. This was the complex that the American military initially secured but then left unguarded and open to looters.
This story was covered on 60 Minutes and in the New York Times, among other places, back in 2004. Now, the Bush Administration is banking on the US public's short memory to forget this major SNAFU and instead believe that Iran is the source of new, improved weapons that are capable of such fierce destructive power.
Here's the relevant link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/25/international/middleeast/25bomb.html?ex=1256356800&en=3bcf849cf3a68472&ei=5090&partner=kmar
Dumbo wrote on February 13, 2007 9:54 PM:I wonder how many American-made weapons have made their way into Iraqi insurgent hands. One might well infer that the Bush administration was arming them for their own nefarious reasons!
Oh, and by the way, how about that poison gas that Saddam Hussein used to kill Iranians during the Iraq-Iran war? I bet the Iranians would like to get to the bottom of that one.
melior wrote on February 13, 2007 11:47 PM:Wow, only four years into the war, and already the explosive devices are becoming less "improvised".
Who could have foreseen that?
willis wrote on February 14, 2007 9:02 AM:What the hell is a "process argument" anyway?
kreine wrote on February 14, 2007 10:55 AM:& so now the US will be held accountable for the use of our weapons all over the world? Yeah, right.
Using Snow's logic, it seems the rest of the world has due cause to retaliate against the US.
The overstretched military and overstressed public do not want another war for oil/democracy/wmd. It's time take a stand against nuclear proliferation, repair and safeguard our elections systems, and develop alternative green energy sources - not start another expensive diversion from core issues by pointing fingers.
Richard L. Adlof wrote on February 14, 2007 1:11 PM:Yo ebw!
The Knesset has zero, zip, nada to do with this. The regional player is Saudi Arabia (pronounced oy-el). For someone typing about not being fooled again . . . Sigh. Every country whose name begins with an 'I' has reason to fear the current Administration's crap - No matter whether its name ends with a 'Q', an 'N' or an 'L'.