Comments (232)

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 1:15 PM:

Also, what's to the right, were Kerry is looking, in the picture ?

Wow, these wingers are desperate!

sd wrote on December 28, 2006 1:17 PM:

might help malkin if we sent her a few emails to help her clear things up...

mailto:writemalkin@gmail.com

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 1:24 PM:

If anyone has that camera, or a similar model, please pul lout the batteries for abir a half hour, and see what happens to the date setting. Might take a little longer...

Mrs Panstreppon wrote on December 28, 2006 1:40 PM:

Looks like Kerry is eating breakfast with the coffee cup and bowl in front of him. Plus he looks somewhat scruffy and unshaven. Hardly how you would present yourself at a festive do.

Roxanne wrote on December 28, 2006 1:40 PM:

Perhaps the date info is weird because the image actually comes two or more photo combined. It's strange that Kerry seems to be more illuminated than the other people visible in the pic. Almost like he was cut out of a lighter photo and inserted into this one.

Node of Evil wrote on December 28, 2006 1:49 PM:

Posting of Vivitar press release announcing Vivicam 8400 dated Feb. 13, 2006:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/showthread.php?t=18244

I can't find any other mention of this particular press release, but Vivitar could certainly verify its accuracy.

Mrs Panstreppon wrote on December 28, 2006 1:58 PM:

Oops! I just noticed that the occasion was supposed to be a "festive breakfast". I'd like to know more about the operations of the embassy dining room.

Is the dining room open every day to enlisted men?

I see waiters in vests and white shirts. Is this how they always dress?

Do the waiters provide table service or is it buffet? If it was buffet, Kerry chose to sit where he did.

I can see other empty seats and the waiters are standing around b.s.ing so it looks like the breakfast rush was over.

To me, it looks like Kerry just came in to have a quick everyday breakfast, somebody snapped a photo and now the right wing is using the photo for another one of their moronic publicity stunts.

David Brooks wrote on December 28, 2006 1:59 PM:

Given the flag, the picture was probably taken by a Briton. Remember the US's date format is unique? Try September 1.

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 1:59 PM:

I called Vivitar and confirmed.

Elsewhere, someone says this same camera was released under the Mustek label. Based on other experience, I wouldn't be surprised if the Mustek had the same programming as the Vivitar. But I;ve not confirmed any of this.

I do think the whole premise is silly. Over on Dailykos, someone makes this point:

"This article is half the truth. My friend told me more details and was there.

Kerry apparently showed up during the last 10 minutes of when the chow hall was open. So there were not so many people there to begin with. Additionallly he had a crowd of security surrounding him and I dont believe his intentions in that chow hall were to greet the troops based upon the real facts. Additionally the military folks in the mess hall would not have felt comfortable approaching him in these surroundings. That doesn’t necessarily paint the picture in the article.

Finally - this is typical treatment for famous people there.

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t like his politics but this isn’t factual reporting according to my sources (which are my friends not second hand spew from reporters making money)."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/12/28/113944/82

childo wrote on December 28, 2006 1:59 PM:

The EXIF date data could be wrong because the date was not set correctly on the camera.

Steven Olson wrote on December 28, 2006 2:04 PM:

What gets me about this picture is that I see no Portugeuse flag to the right of the Union Jack, but I DO see what looks like an Irish flag to the LEFT of it. This makes me wonder what the hell these two flags are doing in an AMERICAN mess hall yet Old Glory is nowhere to be seen? You can find American flag decals on the backs of SUV's in a mall parking lot but not in an American mess hall in a U.S. Embassy in Iraq. Does this sound logical to anybody? That alone makes me think the description of this picture is two pounds of shit in a one-pound bag.

Steven Olson

Ben Rosengart wrote on December 28, 2006 2:05 PM:

The kerning in that picture is definitely incorrect. :-)

Ursus wrote on December 28, 2006 2:06 PM:

A more fundamental question: Is that John Kerry in the photo? Certainly it could be him. But is that photo crisp enough to make an identification absent the assertion of the photo-taker identifying him as John Kerry.

Put it another way. If someone showed you this photo without telling you who is in the image, you would think, 'that looks like John Kerry.' But how much money would you bet on it? And what odds would you want?

Which raises the next question: who created the image.

egfrow wrote on December 28, 2006 2:08 PM:

John is wearing a light blue shirt. This accounts for a perception that he is lighter. His face tone and skin are in check with the rest of the photo.

jerry wrote on December 28, 2006 2:10 PM:

http://benofmesopotamia.blogspot.com/2006/12/schaudenfraude-or-john-kerry-visits.html

This is the guy that seems to have taken the picture. Why not ask him?

Donald wrote on December 28, 2006 2:12 PM:

The picture is taken in the Embassy mess hall. Here's a shot with the same decorations from Christmas of this year:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shradar/332792446/
Other shots of the DFAC on Flickr confirm the location.

And given that the camera seems to default to a date of Jan 1, I'd say the picture is authentic.

The caption is another question entirely. There are a thousand things that could explain why Kerry is not sitting with troops (and it's innacurate to say he's sitting alone. He's clearly engaged in conversation with the group he's sitting with).

Point being, it would be relatively easy to Google around and find a picture of Bush standing by himself on a visit to Iraq -- and then attach a caption that says, "Look, the servicemen and women won't go near him!"

David Brooks wrote on December 28, 2006 2:14 PM:

To follow up on my date question: Justin, where was Senator Kerry on Sep 1? Anyone know?

Pamela Leavey wrote on December 28, 2006 2:23 PM:

Posted by: David Brooks
Date: December 28, 2006 02:14 PM

Kerry was here in the U.S. on Sept 1 - I chronicle nearly everything he does on my blog.

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 2:24 PM:

Jerry, that picture you posted could be anywhere and does not look like anything in the original.

Also, note this "Ben of Mesopotamia" describes himself thusly:
"Ben of Mesopotamia is a Harvard PhD and Presidential speechwriter"
Geee, which President do you think?

Also, he has a different photo then the one in question posted. I think we can say those photos are not photoshopped...?

Roxanne wrote on December 28, 2006 2:41 PM:

It's an awfully dark picture to tell much of anything from it in this state. What, did the guy who snapped it not have a flash on his snazzy new camera?

ComeOnGuys wrote on December 28, 2006 2:50 PM:

If you grab this photo and open in in Photoshop and zoom in / look at the color layers it's pretty obvious this photo is a fake. And a bad fake at that. I am a democrat and a Kerry supporter, but you don't have to be a democrat to know this photo is a pure fake. Seriously guys. More Swift Boating is really necessary?

chabuka wrote on December 28, 2006 2:51 PM:

Don't like his politics, how would you know what they are, when you have nasty people like Michelle Malkin, (Rush Limpballs, Bill O'liely, etc) inventing, manipulating and lying about what is really said or done? Its not news, its slander and libel. And it is supposed to be against the law, like so many of the laws that have been broken by the Bush's rah-rah team ...take their microphones away

MK wrote on December 28, 2006 3:15 PM:

Has anyone e-mailed the pic to the Kerry folks and asked..."Hey, where is this? When was it? Who's he talking to?"

HalpUsJonCarry wrote on December 28, 2006 3:24 PM:

This guys a douche bag. Who really cares if he's eating alone. I feel sorry for anyone who has to be within 100 feet of him. I first read this "breaking news" on a right wing blog and thought the same thing: "Who the F--- cares". Then I accidently stumbles onto this site and find you guys scurrying around franticly trying to debunk this story. How pathetic.

My unprofessional guess would be the batteries were changed about 9 days, 12 hours, 57 minutes and 38 seconds before the photo was taken. The camera specs I read do not mention a backup battery.

It's all "BushCo's Generalisimo El Busho's" fault anyway, isn't it? That's the usual lib answer.

Love to sit and waste valuable time but I have more important things to do.

Halp

Node of Evil wrote on December 28, 2006 3:26 PM:

Steve said:

'You can find American flag decals on the backs of SUV's in a mall parking lot but not in an American mess hall in a U.S. Embassy in Iraq. Does this sound logical to anybody?'

Well... Considering that the Bush Administration has made every effort to promote the international flavor of the "coalition" in Iraq, I could see them posting flags of current and former members in the mess hall. It makes sense to promote the idea, even if the numbers of troops on the ground indicate otherwise.

Jeff H wrote on December 28, 2006 3:36 PM:

You've been "debunked":

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006613.htm

Donald wrote on December 28, 2006 3:46 PM:

I hate to be a broken record, but a handful here still seem to be crying fake. I'm a professional photographer: the photo looks perfectly fine to me, even after inspection in Photoshop.

The slightly different angle (and higher res version) posted to the "Ben of Mesopotamia" blog shuts the case on that. Kerry appears lighter because he is much closer to the camera than anyone else (and is wearing light colors). You'll note that the person in red in the righthand corner is brighter yet -- closer to the camera, closer to the flash. The image is so dark and grainy because the camera is a cheap point-and-shoot. The flash doesn't have a lot of oomph (the picture may be taken from far away and zoomed or cropped) -- and the ISO was probably increased to compensate (which adds those noise artifacts).

As I demonstrated above with a Flickr link, the scene is definitely the mess hall in the Baghdad Embassy. All those flags are really there (as are the hokey Christmas decorations).

The far more important question is whether the caption is accurate. Let's not forget the shot of New Yorkers "relaxing" on September 11:
http://www.slate.com/id/2149578/

It's hard for me to believe that the troops really would have shunned Kerry THAT much. But maybe that's the case. "Ben in Mesopotamia" seems to have a trustworthy read of the situation (and note that his account [the original account?] omits the gym anecdote).

And all of this debate, of course, is purely academic. Does it matter if the troops shunned Kerry? If they did, it's because they misunderstood his flubbed joke. Which we already went over countless times before the election.

Let's not beat the dead horse on this. There are things that matter.

JimBob wrote on December 28, 2006 3:54 PM:

Wow! no armor for Humvees, but the troops have waiters in snazzy vests for their mess halls.

DUDACKATTACK!!! wrote on December 28, 2006 4:02 PM:

Kerry should have bought some credibility by bringing a plastic turkey. Man, he is so out of touch.

Night Rider wrote on December 28, 2006 4:05 PM:

It's really hilarious to watch all of you Libs squirm like the little worms that you are. LOL

Awkward Silence wrote on December 28, 2006 4:12 PM:

How'd those midterms go again, Night Rider? You *might* want to tone the lame bravado down a notch or two.

Also, shorter Conservatives: We're going to post and gloat over the stupidest, most ambiguous anti-liberal minutiae we can find-- but if you dare waste a second trying to debunk them, you're a loser who has too much free time.

Really Really Con wrote on December 28, 2006 4:12 PM:

Watch out, libs!

Those true American conservatives are going to get you on the most important issue of the day: A picture of Kerry sitting at a table!

You libs don't care about what is really important. We conservatives do and the most important thing about the troops and America? A picture of Kerry sitting at a table!

Let's talk about this picture of Kerry sitting at a table some more!!!!!!

bob wrote on December 28, 2006 4:14 PM:

Fuck you night rider

KerryIsScary wrote on December 28, 2006 4:15 PM:

Ha, nice try. Who eats breakfast at 1 p.m. anyway? Further proof that the camera might not have been set to the right date. Currently, my camera reads 1/29/2000. Hmm...

KillLoonys wrote on December 28, 2006 4:16 PM:

Stupid libs. You VOTED FOR TREASON !!!

toofunny wrote on December 28, 2006 4:17 PM:

Man are you moonies desperate! If this wasn't so pathetic it would hilarious. Keep digging, you'll convince someone besides yourselves.

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 4:18 PM:

My camera reads the year 2000 when batt's run dead, too. Not 2006!

To the (far) more rational Donald, the reason I spend time on stuf like this is because there's a constant effort by the right wing to destroy Democrats who rise to prominence. This silly little example is one more.

We can't just let them get away with it time and again.

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 4:22 PM:

Hey, "toofunny," you do know that the Moonies are big time supporters of Republcians these days? At least the Rev Sun Myung Moon is. That's why he's poured so much money into his propaganda organ, The Washington Times.

Awkward Silence wrote on December 28, 2006 4:26 PM:

Actually, what's really quite comical are the 'unhinged' Conservatives who still think-- despite common sense and simple arithmetic-- they were voted out of office by some crazy, treasonous minority.

Ah, math & science, the bane of wingnuts.

And think-- the more time you spend trolling here, the less time you have to forward e-mails & earn cash from Bill Gates.

Mark F. wrote on December 28, 2006 4:36 PM:

If you check out the EXIF data with a program designed to more completely read the data, here's what you'll see:

ImageDescription -
Make - Vivitar
Model - Vivicam 8400
Orientation - Top left
XResolution - 180.00
YResolution - 180.00
ResolutionUnit - Inch
Software - Adobe Photoshop CS2 Windows
DateTime - 2006:12:28 12:02:45
YCbCrPositioning - Co-Sited
CustomRendered - Normal process
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
SceneCaptureType - Standard
ExifOffset - 324
ExposureTime - 1/30 seconds
FNumber - 4.00
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 100
ExifVersion - 0220
DateTimeOriginal - 2006:01:09 12:57:38
DateTimeDigitized - 2006:01:09 12:57:38
ComponentsConfiguration - YCbCr
ShutterSpeedValue - 1/30 seconds
ApertureValue - F 4.00
ExposureBiasValue - 0.00
MaxApertureValue - F 2.80
MeteringMode - Center weighted average
LightSource - Flash
Flash - Flash fired, auto mode
FocalLength - 85 mm
FlashPixVersion - 0100
ColorSpace - sRGB
ExifImageWidth - 300
ExifImageHeight - 225
SensingMethod - One-chip color area sensor
FileSource - DSC - Digital still camera

Note that the photo was manipulated in some way in Photoshop CS2 for Windows. As for the release date of the camera, the date they showed it at PMA is not necessarily the date it became available for retail sale. Don't know when the camera was first put on the market, but it could easily have been before the trade show.

beachmom wrote on December 28, 2006 4:37 PM:

Two accounts from right and left debunk this story. I'm not an expert on photos, but when people form opposite sides of the spectrum come up with similar accounts, then I think we've stumbled upon the uninteresting truth.

From the Left - Democratic Underground
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2986360&mesg_id=2986498:

A relative was there and said the poor man barely had time to eat for soldiers stopping by the table to shake his hand but even so quite a few soldiers made a point of leaving him be only so he could finish his breakfast. And as you can see by the lunch pic there are plenty of soldier around.

BTW the claim that Kerry cancelled a press conference because no one would come is not quite true. The military initially set up the press conference before they checked with Kerry. My relative who would have been in the crew to set up the electronics for the press conference was told IN ADVANCE of Kerry's arrival that it had been cancelled on request of John Kerry because this was intended to be a support the troops visit not a photo op.

And from the Right - Poweline Blog:

http://www.plnewsforum.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/15012/P45/

This article is half the truth. My friend told me more details and was there.

Kerry apparently showed up during the last 10 minutes of when the chow hall was open. So there were not so many people there to begin with. Additionallly he had a crowd of security surrounding him and I dont believe his intentions in that chow hall were to greet the troops based upon the real facts. Additionally the military folks in the mess hall would not have felt comfortable approaching him in these surroundings. That doesn’t necessarily paint the picture in the article.

Finally - this is typical treatment for famous people there.

Don’t get me wrong - I don’t like his politics but this isn’t factual reporting according to my sources (which are my friends not second hand spew from reporters making money).

Each side has a slant but the basic facts are the same. The story is false, and there are plenty of photos in that first DU thread showing Kerry with the troops who seem to be happy he's there, even snapping photos of him. The story can be chocked up to wishful thinking and a slow news day.

Ken wrote on December 28, 2006 4:45 PM:

I think Michelle Malkin (ugh!) makes a strong case that the photo is, in fact, authentic.

However, in doing so, she presents a photo of Kerry sitting at the same lunch table surrounded by troops.

So much for the representation that the troops "avoided Kerry like the plague". Thanks Michelle, for showing us that the photo was authentic, but the conclusion drawn from it was false!

blueneck wrote on December 28, 2006 4:51 PM:

Who cares. Kerry is not my senator. He is not running for anything. He matters to me about as much as Tom Delay does.

Susie wrote on December 28, 2006 4:51 PM:

I wouldn't consider that surrounded by troops. Some are not even looking his way. Nice try.

shrike wrote on December 28, 2006 4:53 PM:

If you go to www.michellemalkin.com you'll see some extended comments on this matter.

The picture appears to be genuine.

Legalize wrote on December 28, 2006 4:59 PM:

My goodness, if only the blog-o-sphere spent as much time reflecting on the demonstrably disasterous policies they advocate, as they do obfuscating and blaming "libruls" and "teh media" for their impotence.

You Lose wrote on December 28, 2006 5:09 PM:

You have been proven WRONG! Check out the facts at MM's site. As for a date on a camera, tell me, do you honestly think everyone sets the date on their electronics? Nice try but face it Kerry is a bonehead and the military HATES him. Anyone who has ever spent any time in the armed forces understands how politicians of his ilk are viewed. Trust me, very few if any would want anything to do with the traitor especially in a combat theater.

pseudonymous in nc wrote on December 28, 2006 5:13 PM:

Shorter wingnut blogs: yet again failing to see the forest for the trees.

Convert wrote on December 28, 2006 5:15 PM:

Look at the banquet chairs in the Dark photo of Kerry. They are the same chairs shown in the photo of the Embassy mess hall at Thanksgiving on Malkins site. The windows and curtains also look the same. It's the same room.

Roxanne wrote on December 28, 2006 5:17 PM:

Well, Kerry IS my Senator, and anyone who thinks he would insult the troops doesn't know squat about John Kerry.

These guys sure didn't mind being seen with Senator Kerry: http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061219/capt.dam10412191531.mideast_syria_usa_dam104.jpg

DA wrote on December 28, 2006 5:19 PM:

That's George Clooney.

Ron Chusid wrote on December 28, 2006 5:28 PM:

There are a number of theories going around about this picture which I note at this post. More importantly, I show how George Bush would have handled this problem:

http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=816

Ms. America wrote on December 28, 2006 5:29 PM:

Why are the right wings thugs still afraid of John Kerry?

I mean if he's so irrelevant, why are they wasting their precious venom spewing time trying to take him down.

Why do they continue to try and silence his loud, tall, booming, voice speaking truth to power?

Why do they try to stop this man again.

And again. And again...

Doug wrote on December 28, 2006 5:30 PM:

My take is the blogs on the right are just as interested in debunking crap stories as the left. The advantage of the blogosphere (over most legacy media outlets) are the interactive capabilities. Instant feedback and, where needed, instant debunking such that every blogger's credibility is on the line with every post.

All that said, what's this I hear about a 9/11 conspiracy? ;-)

Juan wrote on December 28, 2006 5:39 PM:

People, step away from the computer. You have sailed beyond the sea of crazy and are dangerously close to the rocky shores of nutjob island. This doesn't matter. Really, it doesn't.

..and I am a liberal Democrat.

thebes wrote on December 28, 2006 5:42 PM:

http://blog.johnkerry.com/2006/12/on_the_ground_in_iraq.html#more

Here's a picture from the blog at Johnkerry.com showing him eating with troops in Iraq - note the red tablecloth too.

This is just more right-wing noise.

Woo wrote on December 28, 2006 5:44 PM:

So...question for the wingers trying to spin this story.

When somebody famous sits down in a restaurant you're eating in...do you go sit at their table?

sonofdy wrote on December 28, 2006 5:47 PM:

Why do they continue to try and silence his loud, tall, booming, voice speaking truth to power?

------------
TRUTH?????? lol

AllDemsonBoard wrote on December 28, 2006 5:51 PM:

It appears Senator Kerry's efforts to end the war in Iraq is ruffling some feathers. Those who oppose such efforts now believe that a photo and a joke are more important than the devastation of an illegal war. Eating alone when the possibility that such a fuss will be made over a photo of such an incident takes courage. Trying to use a photo of Senator Kerry eating to imply that this is a defining moment in his life is pathetic.

I'm sure many members of the military appreciate not only Senator Kerry's military and public service, but they know he genuinely cares about their safety and well-being and respects their courage and sacrifice.

Ms. America wrote on December 28, 2006 5:55 PM:

Ah.. sonofdy must be a Bush cultist who thinks it's true that we actually did find WMD and the mission was really accomplished and we will win if we just stay the course and we've lost nearly three thousand of our best trooops because Iraq is a central front in the war on terror and Rumsfeld was the greatest Secretary of Defense ever and the Iraqis will be throwing flowers at us any doggone day now.

LOL?????? Not so much.

Awkward Silence wrote on December 28, 2006 6:03 PM:

>I wouldn't consider that surrounded by troops. Some are not even looking his way. Nice try.<

So when you sit at a table with someone you're required to stare intensely at them the entire time? You must be one creepy dinner date . . .

Richterscale wrote on December 28, 2006 6:17 PM:

Instant feedback and, where needed, instant debunking such that every blogger's credibility is on the line with every post.

All that said, what's this I hear about a 9/11 conspiracy? ;-)
Posted by: Doug
Date: December 28, 2006 05:30 PM

Hmm, somehow I don't think Michelle Malkin nor anyone who reads her is too concerned with her credibility.

And perhaps things have changed, but last I heard the troops get fed a steady diet of right wing propaganda thanks to Fox 'news'. So would it be that much of a surprise if there was a kernal of truth to this story?

zerosumgame wrote on December 28, 2006 6:19 PM:

'Mick' Malkin starts this all off by lying about picture and the conference supposedly called off because the troops were hostile to him. All on the basis of what she still cannot be grown-up enough to admit was isolated and manipulated by her to try to support her lies. People looked at it, found out more of the truth about it then 'Mick' writes about on her purile little site and of course the numbbutz-cons come shrieking over here as if something was 'won'. What a bunch of morans.

cadmium wrote on December 28, 2006 6:51 PM:

These Bush apologists like Malkin may simply have no other game left in their playbook except for propagating fake insinuations about Kerry. Either this is the only thing they know how to do or Kerry really makes them nervous. I think it is probably a combination of both--with a democratic majority and hopefully pointed hearings coming up in Congress they should be a little nervous.

M. Loutre wrote on December 28, 2006 7:13 PM:

It seems well worth noting that “Ben of Mesopotamia” — aka Benjamin Runkle — one of the RW bloggers who first really pushed hard on this non-story about the photo in question, is a self-described communications specialist (which means, in some quarters, ‘propaganda specialist’) who has worked for the DOD, the NSC, and according to his blog’s ‘About Me’ blurb is a “Harvard PhD and Presidential speechwriter called back to Active Duty for Operation Iraqi Freedom.”

Is this another example of BushCo’s proven policy of planting propaganda mouthpieces into supposedly non-partisan bailiwicks so that they can churn out pro-administration spin and misinformation? Could this be another sock-puppet soldier embedded with the troops so that he can influence them on the ground and feed back pre-canned points to the folks at home?

I’m not saying that he’s just another paid BushCo spokespuppet hiding behind a blogname, because I don’t have access to enough facts to prove or disprove that. But given the little bit of facts that are available to us on this end, especially coupled with this administration’s known history of using plants and fake pundits to feed false information to the public, it certainly seems to me like this is something that bears further investigation by those with more access to the details -- like, say, some TPM muckraker (ahem ahem)...

demohypocrates wrote on December 28, 2006 7:16 PM:

"When somebody famous sits down in a restaurant you're eating in...do you go sit at their table?"

When they come to the restaurant with the express intention of meeting me, I do.

jack wrote on December 28, 2006 7:31 PM:

All I know for sure is that I wouldn't eat with John Kerry in Iraq, here or anywhere and that's all that matters to me.

mcg wrote on December 28, 2006 7:37 PM:

More updates from Michelle:
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/006613.htm

StealthBadger wrote on December 28, 2006 8:01 PM:

Funny, I thought a mess in Iraq was for sitting down and eating, and maybe having a few minutes of peace in between having to do too much crap for other people (and possibly get shot at).

Silly me, of COURSE it's the "show my political affiliation" lounge.

GFY wrote on December 28, 2006 8:16 PM:

Desperate wingnuts.

Geez.

You lost, crawl back under your beds cowards. We know we will not see you in Iraq cons.

STFU!

stm wrote on December 28, 2006 8:17 PM:

It's inaccurate to say the troops ignored Kerry. Viewers of Fox and Friends sent in email photos of their family members who are soldiers having their picture taken with Kerry. Doesn't exactly sound like shunning or snubbing to me.

Bill wrote on December 28, 2006 8:22 PM:

Be real.

I know quite a few US servicemen that actually cannot wait to go back to rebuild the country (these guys have been injured in duty as well). You ask them if they would like to sit down with Kerry and they will let you know how accurate this photo is.

So many on the board may be against the war- and that's fine, but please- you are so used to thinking inside your box. Many people (especially those who have actually been to Iraq) think you are nuts.

Douglas Watts wrote on December 28, 2006 8:38 PM:

This entire thread shows the benefits of professional journalists over bloggers. Too many bloggers -- left and right -- draw a conclusion first and then massage the "facts" into a presentation that magically supports their pre-ordained conclusion.

This is shown by the fact that date settings in digital cameras commonly revert to a default setting when the batteries are removed or go dead. However, the liberal "debunker" fails to consider this possibility because the date shown confirms his ideological wish to prove the "other side" wrong.

Then the issue of the British flag in the photo, which magically seems to support the fact that Kerry was in England on 1/9/2006 and not in Iraq. Again, the "debunker" confuses causation with correlation, ie. that a Kerry visit to England in Jan. 2006, and a British flag in the background must mean the date shown on the camera data was accurate. Such a correlation is not proof, since the "false positive" could equally be true, ie. the camera date was wrong and the photograph was actually taken in Iraq on the date it was alleged to have been taken.

This leads to another pitfall. Date stamps on photos can be deliberately or accidentally altered from the date the photo was actually taken. For this reason, date stamps have no confirmatory value as evidence of when a photo was taken.

Lastly, as to what the photo depicts, ie. Kerry. As a professional news photographer, I may take dozens of photos of a person in a short burst. Because of the shutter speed and the liquidity of human facial expressions (for example), you can make a person look "sad" when they are happy just by selecting a photo that shows them with a momentarily not-happy shape to their lips or eyes. In news photo editing, w/digital or contact sheets, you try to pick out the photo which best illustrates the scene, mood and setting as you witnessed it. If you have nefarious motives, you can pick a photo which seems to show the exact opposite of what happened.

If the "blogosphere" wants to be taken seriously, they need to do their job seriously, and double check before hitting the send button. Saying "we're not professionals" as an excuse simply confirms one's incompetence and willingness to put ideology over reality.

RandyH wrote on December 28, 2006 8:56 PM:

If you want to read something that reads like a REAL email from the troops, go check out what Tom Tomorrow is releasing from a military guy (a teacher) who is in Iraq.

There's this one:
http://thismodernworld.com/3420 (Christmas in Iraq)

And the one previous to it that introduces the soldier and tells of his arrival in Iraq:
http://thismodernworld.com/3417

Tom Tomorrow will continue posting pieces of this backed up queue of messages that the guy sent him. Watch his blog.

Personally, this whole "is the photo valid" discussion is reminding me of the Righties when they tore apart Mary Mapes and Dan Rather for one memo that seemed slightly questionable regarding Dubya's "military experience." They got lots of attention and yet never proved it to be a fake... and ruined two highly respected people's careers. Of course, they all think it's their greatest achievement in life. I thought it sucked because even without the questionable document, the story was very clear. Bush was priviledged and AWOL.

But then again we got Jeff Gannon, White House Correspondent for the Rightie Propaganda Force / Gay Prostitute - and that was proven.

Anyhoo, carry on.

Perry Jefferies wrote on December 28, 2006 9:21 PM:

I've no idea about the photo, but a friend of mine was at one of the Kerry / Dodd events. He said that Senator Dodd worked the crowd like he was running for office while Kerry was quizing his constituents and masterfully steered the conversation away from thorny topics. Although he is not in any way a Kerry supporter my friend said that he was impressed by the way the Senator operated. But he concluded with the fact that only five of Kerry's constituents showed and opined that it my have been related to the comments. Remember that FOX is the predominate news source for Soldiers in Iraq.
I'd say that the Senator is feeling some backlash, deserved or not, but not the total abdication of his constituents as some would have us believe.

dnash001 wrote on December 28, 2006 9:22 PM:

Here's a larger and what appears to be a sequential photo to the one posted here.

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/5027/1939/1600/989798/Kerry2.jpg

Having a background in this type of work, I have to say that this is a legitimate photo and not a composite as has been suggested.

This larger version also clarifies many mis-statements here about the photo's contents (Irish flag, etc.).

Lastly, I am not sure that the persons wearing vests are wait staff - the ball caps are inconsistent with what would be consistant with food service personnel.

Hope this contributes to the discussion!

Anonymous wrote on December 28, 2006 9:23 PM:

I dunno. Given that this is the least important problem we're facing in Iraq, it's little wonder that little O'Reilly protege Michelle and her merry band of Repub partisans are making a huge deal out of it. What else would they discuss? How well the war is going? Their time worn and increasingly inane talking points that it's all the media's fault?

Desperate is as desparate does.

AlphaLiberal wrote on December 28, 2006 9:36 PM:

Good one, anonymous. Desperate to talk about anything else but the reality on the ground in Iraq.

M. Loutre made a good point, above. Who is “Ben of Mesopotamia”? According to his web site, he's a Comunications Specialist who used to be a Presidential speechwriter. And he's disseminating partisan propaganda from his post.

This does seem like a very intriguing angle to check out. Might not be anything there, if troops are also free to criticize George Bush.

Winston Dodson wrote on December 28, 2006 10:05 PM:

The denial of the moonbats that Kerry is almost universally hated by the US military is hilarious. I love watching moonbats flail at reality.

And I really love the comments above re: the Rathergate memos. Wow, talk about not being in touch with reality. You guys don't get out much do you?

Winston Dodson wrote on December 28, 2006 10:19 PM:

Would another photo of a US Troop in Iraq showing disrespect towards an influential Dem be indesputble proof the US Troops almost universally despise Dem "leaders". Well, if so, here is one:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/crossed.asp

Is it hilarious? So I wonder, is the defining characteristic of a moonbat being totally unable to detect a pattern or is it simply denial of the truth even when it it apparent?

Randy wrote on December 28, 2006 10:27 PM:

No matter how it turns out, I applaud Justin for looking at this stuff when most leftyblogs ignore it.

And I gotta say that I'm stunned at my namesake a few posts above who says Dan Rather and Mary Mapes got a raw deal. CBS could have cleared everything up if there was any truth to it. All they needed was to find an old typewriter with a matching typeface. Then create an animated GIF the way LGF did.

And no, the Selectric wasn't it. There were similarities but it couldn't get anywhere close.

Winston Dodson wrote on December 28, 2006 10:28 PM:

Here is a similar gesture used by US servicemen to indicate that they were unhappy when being forced into posing for propaganda photos.

The "Hawaiian Good Luck Sign"

http://www.usspueblo.org/v2f/captivity/goodluck.html#photo

melmoth wrote on December 28, 2006 10:42 PM:

""The denial of the moonbats that Kerry is almost universally hated by the US military is hilarious. I love watching moonbats flail at reality.""

i'm confident a lot of hard reporting went into this statement.

travis wrote on December 28, 2006 10:49 PM:

what the hell? is this high school?

"you're fat and unpopular and you dress bad. see, no one is sitting with you."

22,235 wounded soldiers. 2,991 dead soldiers. 100k dead Iraqis. Reality sucks, no wonder they're fantasizing.

Awkward Silence wrote on December 28, 2006 11:03 PM:

>Would another photo of a US Troop in Iraq showing disrespect towards an influential Dem be indesputble proof the US Troops almost universally despise Dem "leaders". Well, if so, here is one:<

*One* soldier's photo is "indesputble"[sic] proof that all US Troops universally despise Democrats? Wow, extrapolate much?

So basically, according to your analytical algorithms, when we receive a report that one soldier was killed in Iraq, we should assume they all were?

That's so bad it doesn't deserve the "b". It's just DUM.

RandyH wrote on December 28, 2006 11:14 PM:

Randy-

Your namesake here, RandyH. I know. They could have cleared it up. CBS/Viacom didn't want to clear it up, though. They wanted it over. They knew who they were at war with... The people who could tell them whether or not they would be allowed to expand the Viacom empire or not under FCC rules... Rove & Co.

They did their internal (hatchet job) investigation and ended it. They fired those involved. Sad story really. Read Mary Mapes' book. It's an okay book and pretty informative. You can probably even check it out at the library. A couple days reading is all.

Jingo Jack wrote on December 29, 2006 12:02 AM:

It's no wonder that the troops don't like John Cary.He was a coward who chickened out and came home from Vietnam early. President Bush, on the other hand, wanted to defend America from the godless communists, and he tried like hell to get into a combat unit in Vietnam, knowing full well how dangerous it was over there, but the Army recruiter couldn't guarantee hin a spot in the Infantry, because minorities and poor people were hogging all the good spots at the front lines due to Affirmative Action, and he didn't want to take advantage of his family's influence to jump ahead of them, so he chose the closest thing he could get to combat, and joined the Air Force National Guard, and he checked the 'Does not wish to serve overseas' box on the application only because the mean sergeant in the office told him he had to. This sergeant was really mean, and he hollered like Sgt. Carter in 'Gomer Pyle USMC'.

Pamela Leavey wrote on December 29, 2006 12:04 AM:

It’s swift boat part 2 - http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=5013

Probably nothing more than Kerry remaining at the table after others left and the waiters cleared it. The rightwingers hate Kerry, always have and always will.

PeaceFrog wrote on December 29, 2006 12:22 AM:

I give absolutely no merit to this discussion. Don't get me wrong, from a policy point of view, I believe that John Kerry has much more concern for the troops than the Bush administration, and that they are misinformed for not trusting him. I'm sure conservative hearsay is very prevalent in Iraq as it is conservative policy makers that recruited these men and are dictating every move being made in this war. But going on and on about this photo would only help to feed the right wing spin machine if that were even the case here, which I honestly don't believe it is.

DynamicDems wrote on December 29, 2006 12:33 AM:

This matters. And it doesn't necessarily matter because the subject in this case happens to be John Kerry. What matters is that an entire section of our political spectrum still thinks that it is acceptable to use distortion and lies to manipulate the facts of any situation, individual or party they oppose.

This is not truth, justice or the American way. This is UN-AMERICAN. PERIOD. This is a disgrace and a direct insult to our troops because they are fighting and dying for the values our country represents. Lying and manipulation are not American values.

I'm one person who is sick to death of the swiftboating and the lies. They attack Kerry on a regular basis. They obviously think he is a threat which IS very telling even though the man isn't running for anything at the moment. Even the potential that he may has them creating fiction to discredit him, which is quite revealing if you think about it.

But it isn't just John Kerry who this is done too. These winger types attack anyone they feel threatened by. And they don't use the issues or the truth. No, as usual they present distortion and spread it as malicious gossip. They obviously haven't learned anything from the midterm elections. This isn't a surprise. They follow Bush and he hasn't learned a damn thing either. They are history and they don't even know it. America spoke in the midterms and the winger voice was left a distant chorus in the background. And it is becoming more distant with each passing day.

This kind of crap is what America responded to in the midterm election. The country was sick of corruption and lies. To continue in this vein is a fool's errand. These folks are not only petty, deceitful and vicious, they are also too dumb to learn from their past mistakes.

Wingers: you are doing an excellent job of doing our job for us! Keep posting stupid photos and casting your slant on them. You only succeed in digging yourselves deeper and deeper into the hole into which you belong. America knows you for what you are and you do a much better job you for keeping them reminded of it than any of us liberals ever could.

PeaceFrog wrote on December 29, 2006 12:43 AM:

That is what the discussion should have been about, DynamicDem. Concentrating on this trivial photograph makes us look like we're digging for dirt at any cost. They hand us the the incriminating evidence of their malicious lies on a daily basis. Why should we have to extrapolate anything out of this photograph when there is plenty of other evidence to support wanton disregard for the truth on the part of conservative pundits.

NTodd wrote on December 29, 2006 12:52 AM:

Update: There may be reason to question the image data. In addition to giving the date of Jan. 9th for the picture, it says it was taken by a Vivitar Vivicam 8400 camera. According to this article dated Feb. 27, that model was not yet released. Can anyone verify this?

Vivitar press release:

"Oxnard, California–(February 13, 2006) – Vivitar today announced the launch of the new ViviCam 8400, their new 8MP digital camera, capable of both still photographs and video capture."

NTodd wrote on December 29, 2006 12:55 AM:

Sorry, the embedded URL didn't work:

http://forums.photographyreview.com/showthread.php?t=18244

AlphaMoonbat wrote on December 29, 2006 1:14 AM:

Typical moonbat response... lie, dissort, anything to creat doubt. Truth is we (I proudly serve) do not like Kerry and what he represents.

Douglas Watts wrote on December 29, 2006 1:28 AM:

Update: There may be reason to question the image data. In addition to giving the date of Jan. 9th for the picture, it says it was taken by a Vivitar Vivicam 8400 camera. According to this article dated Feb. 27, that model was not yet released. Can anyone verify this?
---
Hello TPM -- you really need to pull this story off the site immediately. It's potentially libelous and the disclaimer above is essentially an admission of libel, ie. reckless disregard for the truth. See U.S. Supreme Court, Times v. Sullivan.

You can't publish a story containing allegations of this nature and then post a disclaimer at the bottom saying you, the publisher, have no clue whether the story is true or not. That's admitting to libel.

Repeat: you really need to pull this story off the site until you can confirm, with evidence, the veracity of its allegations.

huh? wrote on December 29, 2006 1:47 AM:

On Malkin's site she is using a different photo to prove her point that this photo is legit. The other photo has Kerry sitting with "a few more troops", she says - but I thought the whole point was the troops hated him so much they wouldn't even come near him. But here he is sitting with the troops! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? Does not compute.

I'm sure Michelle will clear this up.

LarryE wrote on December 29, 2006 1:58 AM:

Okay, bottom line on this whole business:

- The photo is apparently genuine.

- The story attached to it is apparently bogus.

Can we all go home now?

PS to Douglas Watts: Get a clue about the law before you offer more "advice." The story includes an update noting that questions have been raised about it and inviting people to submit information which may refute it. Presenting that as showing reckless disregard for the truth would be laughed out of court.

Darleen wrote on December 29, 2006 2:06 AM:

LarryE

Before pronouncing the "story bogus", maybe you should read from a soldier who was there:

http://benofmesopotamia.blogspot.com/2006/12/schaudenfraude-or-john-kerry-visits.html

John wrote on December 29, 2006 2:34 AM:

I'm a pro photographer. (I shoot with a D20.)

A few things:
The photo (location and surroundings) of Kerry's "lonely" picture seem to match the location of "Kerry sitting down with the troops."
Its my opinion that the photos were taken on the same day, in the same location.

Furthermore, the photos on Yahoo and on Kerry's site, with "Kerry sitting with troops", have a photo credit of a guy from the Ministry of Defense (UK). Its a press release photo. It was taken by a corporal.
Naturally, someone taking a photo for the defense ministry is going to try to get a photo of Kerry with troops around him... not Kerry sitting alone. (In PR terms, you would go up to Kerry and suggest that he sit down with the troops. If you look at the photo of Kerry with the troops, you'll note that he's talking and they are eating. Not completely ignoring him, but close enough.)

As for the EXIF date on the photo; that reflects when the batteries were put in. If the camera came out in the past year, as someone suggested, it most likely starts at 1/1/2006 until someone sets it.

Someone suggested that the EXIF data (Software - Adobe Photoshop CS2 Windows) is proof that the photo was manipulated. It is not. It may be the software that was used to aquire the photo from the camera.

Ironically, the grain of the photo makes it harder to manipulate then a well-lit photo. Digital noise is harder to clone then real life, because the pattern is so random. Cloning the random pattern becomes obvious to our eyes.

While its possible that its faked, the reasons given on this thread for thinking its faked are ridiculous and contrived.
Kerry's opinion on the Iraq war are well known. Its not like it makes him popular with the people fighting the war... and anyone who thinks it does is deluded into thinking that the troops don't believe in their mission.

-John

Dave wrote on December 29, 2006 3:26 AM:

Kerrys helicopter code name was Creep 61.

SouthernYankee wrote on December 29, 2006 6:35 AM:

Why are these rightwingnuts so afraid of Kerry that they feel they must destroy him to make themselves look good. You can say what you want about Kerry but he served in the military. I noticed with these rightwingnuts who never served always try to destroy people on the left who did serve. I am a daughter, wife, and a daughter-in-law of three veterans who served in the military. Between them they have over 60 years of military service and they are proud americans and have always voted democrat. Don't believe all that crap about veterans vote republicans because that isn't true.

Gail wrote on December 29, 2006 9:18 AM:

This just shows how pathetic the right wing has become. Instead of talking about serious issues, they're discussing the details of Kerry's photo. Regardless of whether or not this is real, these damn wingnuts need to get a life!

RJ wrote on December 29, 2006 10:01 AM:

Too bad Michelle Malkin pwned you.

From her blog...

I've e-mailed Scott Hennen for a response. One more question: Can anyone verify that
the location depicted in the photo is the mess hall at the US Embassy in Iraq, as Scott Hennen's correspondent identified it?

If not, I owe a big apology to Sen. Kerry and to readers.

Update: It's TPM that owes apologies.

Update: Talked to Scott Hennen by phone. He vouches for the authenticity of the photo and while protecting the identity of his source, he told me it was a reliable source who works for someone high up in Iraq and was there during Kerry's visit.

TPM Muckraker suggests the photo is a year old based on the image data date and suggests the photo was taken when Kerry was in England. I think they're wrong. As many readers note, lots of camera users neglect to change the date settings on their equipment and EXIF data can be easily manipulated. (Also: reader Gregor writes, "Would they still have Christmas decorations up on Jan 9th? Maybe, but I thought it's worth asking. If I were to guess ... I don't see the stuff staying up two full weeks after Christmas.")

Another photo of Kerry in Iraq on Dec. 16 (this time surrounded by a few more troops), noted by Jim Hoft at the time of Kerry's visit, shows him wearing the same shirt he's wearing in the photo posted by Hennen:

kerrybasrah.jpg

kerryiraq002.jpg

He's also wearing the same shirt in these photos from his Iraq visit posted at Blackfive.

TPM Muckraker commenter Donald notes this photo of the Embassy mess hall, apparently posted by a Baghdad-based photographer on December 25, 2006. I've added a yellow oval to call attention to the decorations hanging from the ceiling, which appear to be identical to those in the photo of Kerry posted on Hennen's site:

decorations.JPG

It is unlikely in the extreme that the same Christmas decorations were used in a U.K. mess hall in January 2006 and an American mess hall in Baghdad in December 2006.

Update: Reader Terry M. sends a link to this photo of the Embassy mess hall at Thanksgiving, which was uploaded to Flickr by a Baghdad-based photographer on December 9, 2006. I've added a yellow rectangle to call attention to the lights, which appear to be identical to those in the disputed Kerry photo (you'll also note all the coalition flags, which explain the presence of the Union Jack in the original photo posted at Scott's site):

lights.bmp

If you believe the disputed Kerry photo was taken in England in January 2006, then you must also believe that: (a) Kerry wore the same shirt in England as he did in Iraq 11 months later; (b) the U.K mess hall had Christmas decorations hanging from its ceiling two weeks after Christmas Day, (c) those decorations were identical to those hung 11 months later in the American Embassy in Baghdad, and (d) the U.K. mess hall has the same lights as the American Embassy in Baghdad.

***

Reader Tom A. writes:

The guy to Senator Kerry's left (seated behind him) is wearing a U.S. Army "Army Combat Uniform" (ACU).

This is a relatively new & unique camouflage pattern and looks nothing like any U.K. uniform -- or any other army for that matter.

Moreover, if a U.S. Soldier was in the U.K. at an official meal, it is highly unlikely he would be in a utility uniform.

Finally, having spent a couple of holidays in Iraq and Afghanistan myself, I can vouch for the fact that this dining facility bears a striking resemblance to every other U.S. dining facility in the combat zones -- cheap tables, cheap tablecloths, cheap paper mache decorations, and hired-hand kitchen help in pseudo-tux uniforms who are on contract from a third-party country.

It's Iraq alright.

Another reader e-mails:

My brother is an Air Force Col. serving on Gen. Casey's staff in Baghdad. I emailed him yesterday to ask if he had seen the picture of "Mr. Lonely." He had seen the pix and the following is what he wrote back: "The picture on the website of the Senator is from the same chow hall I use. We call it the DEFAC (Dining facility). The night prior I was in the chow hall with the Senator, he came in just behind me and sat a few tables over. Everybody avoided him like the plague."

Reader John:

Not that you need any more evidence, but the chair backs in the disputed Kerry photo are identical to the ones in the other, undisputed, U.S. Baghdad embassy mess hall photo.

***

Bottom line: Nice try, TPM, but the photo is real. If you're looking to exercise your fauxtography-debunking muscles, see here.

http://michellemalkin.com/

Michelle was willing to apologize if she was proved wrong will you apologize now that you are proved wrong?

Daryl wrote on December 29, 2006 10:24 AM:

Desparate rightards like Darleen and RJ are such a hoot. Fucking morons.

Steve wrote on December 29, 2006 10:42 AM:

Daryl,

Instead of offering a single counter-argument, you ignore insurmountable proof and call people childish names. Think about this carefully and try not to hurt yourself - who is really behaving like a moron here? Unfortunately, you'll never be able to see the truth because you are too stupid to have an honest introspective thought. You and your other brother Daryl have a great day.

Anonymous wrote on December 29, 2006 10:47 AM:

... and Justin's response?...

(crickets chirping)

Tahoblue wrote on December 29, 2006 11:03 AM:

he must really smell bad -

Becky wrote on December 29, 2006 11:24 AM:

heh, heh. No matter what the issue, I always enjoy it when people proclaim their superiority without doing their homework, disparage, call out nasty names and then have to eat crow. Yum, yum.

I enjoy it even more when they can't admit that they are wrong making them look even MORE foolish.

jcrue wrote on December 29, 2006 11:31 AM:

I think that is a plastic "show" Kerry the mess hall folks put out for the occasion and not the real thing...

The knucklehead who commented on the flags in the messhall, and noted the absence of the American flag needs to see the picture of the entire messhall before playing investigator...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kjirstinb/317698721/in/set-72157594358971748/

I wonder how many friends the folks here have who can verify the veracity of the photo's location. But that would involve knowing people in the military or Iraq and that doesn't seem to many in these comments.

Stuart Rose wrote on December 29, 2006 11:58 AM:

I was not too surprised about the photo of Kerry apparently eating alone. Two summers age I returned to Boston on a flight from London. John Kerry was also on that flight, but unaccompanied. He stood alone in the baggage area, except for a trooper nearby. A few people came to chat him up or get a photo. After I cleared customs and entered the main terminal, I noted that Senator Kerry was right behind me, and that there was no one meeting him, either. Off he strode into the night-still all alone-and this was Boston. I thought it a bit unusual, considering his prominence. If I had remembered in time, I might have asked him if he had watched the in-flight movie: The Manchurian Candidate!

horselover fat wrote on December 29, 2006 12:18 PM:

*singing*

Where have all the lefties gone, now that Michelle has throttled them?

Where have all the lefties gone? Apologies are beneath them.

Immolate wrote on December 29, 2006 12:41 PM:

I think a lot of folks are missing the point on both sides. The Kerry along hit a lot of major conservative blogs and the overall tone of the posts was one of lighthearted humor. It didn't turn into a major conflagration until this site attempted to debunk the photo. The story that made this story even mildly relevant was Kerry's gaffe before the election. Until that time, Kerry at least had some ambition to the '08 Democratic nomination. Afterward, the noise stopped. That doesn't mean that Kerry won't run, just that he understands the damage he's done.

I think that the Kerry-alone story is no more than a yuk-yuk post with the picture making it irresistable. From a relevance perspective, it was about as lightweight as the Gannon story. But the response to this story in the comments leads me to think that many of you don't share that opinion.

I hope you all had a wonderful and happy Christmas and that the new year brings you all the success and happiness that you wish for.

mike wrote on December 29, 2006 1:03 PM:

Where have all the lefties gone, now that Michelle has throttled them?

Where have all the lefties gone? Apologies are beneath them.

Exactly, hf. When the leftards are proven wrong, rather than apologizing, they slink back under their moss-and-slime-covered rocks, never to be heard from again.

security code: "again". Yep, like I said.

PathO wrote on December 29, 2006 1:10 PM:

1. Kerry is not alone.
2. There is only ONE person in the photo who can be described as a "troop."
3. How long had Kerry been sitting there?
4. Don't we all like elbow room if we can get it?
5. Are our "troops" that brainwashed and rude to get up and leave when Kerry sat down, as the RWNs would have us believe?

horselover fat wrote on December 29, 2006 1:59 PM:

No one said they stood up and left, they just avoided him like the plague. By all accounts Kerry was given the cold shoulder by our dumb-as-nails troops who didn't study hard enough and got stuck in Iraq

greg wrote on December 29, 2006 3:22 PM:

Pathetic trolls trying to make a point who can't even click on the home page link to see the updates.

Morons.

BTW, let us know when Michelle goes to Baghdad. Be sure to post lots of pics.

Shogun of Harlem wrote on December 29, 2006 4:00 PM:

This whole thing is much ado about nothing. Who cares if John Kerry was sitting with troops? What time of the breakfast/lunch/dinner was it taken? (Perhaps it was about to close). Here are a few things to remember:

John Kerry served in the US Navy. You (and I also) do not like him, but respect his service.

John Kerry badmouthed the troops. Did the troops ever really support him and other Democrats over Republicans. Nope.

Personally, if John Kerry came into the Mess Hall to eat, I would sit with him and talk. He is a leader in our country and although I do not agree with him on 99% of the issues, it would be nice to hear what he has to say.

Lastly, it is damn funny on how Liberals get all bent out of shape to prove something wrong and forever go on EVEN WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES WHO GOT IT WRONG.

Dennis wrote on December 29, 2006 4:22 PM:

Troops had to wait for hours to get Hannity's and O'Reilly's autograph. I sure it would be the same for Michelle.

Matthew P. wrote on December 29, 2006 4:36 PM:

is it just me or does this discussion miss the entire point? the question isn't whether it matters if kerry actually was eating all alone in the mess hall. the important question is, "why is it a bad thing if members of the armed forces don't want to share a meal with you?" shouldn't this be a point of pride among those with college degrees? can we please stop pretending that these mercenaries have some kind of overriding moral authority to offer opinions on the war? there is a reason that they volunteered for the military, and it isn't usually because they did really well on the s.a.t. there is no reason to join the armed forces these days other than a lack of viable career options or an insatiable bloodlust coupled with a complete ignorance of their role in the american empire project. in fact, knowing the political beliefs and resultant voting patterns of these grunts, i would take it as a point of pride to be in such utter disagreement with them. let them fight for whatever imaginary reasons they concoct - the i.q. of the country can only rise.

Winston Dodson wrote on December 29, 2006 9:04 PM:

Mathew P writes "the i.q. of the country can only rise."

95% of all enlisted US Military personnel have high school diplomas while only 75% of the average US citizen does.

100% of officers have 4 year college degrees while only 25% of US citizens do.

If Mathew P's command of math and the concept of averages is any indication of the intellect of the left then it is they who are bringing down the average i.q. of the nation.

SouthernYankee wrote on December 29, 2006 10:02 PM:

Hey folks, lets all get a grip now. If Malkin went before a judge saying she received this information from a friend of a friend the judge would throw this case out of court because it is hearsay. I don't care to much for Kerry but the rightwingnuts screwed him over. They called him a flip flopper but now who is the flip flopper (baby bush). Also he is a big lyer. Remember WMD, boom, phoop now almost 3,000 dead soldiers. What a good little christian he is. He is the decider and boy what a decider he is.

Machine Operator wrote on December 30, 2006 1:51 PM:

Where I come from, Southern Yankees spell liar as liar.

baldilocks wrote on December 30, 2006 3:30 PM:

So...question for the wingers trying to spin this story.

When somebody famous sits down in a restaurant you're eating in...do you go sit at their table?

No. But I would have done it in a chow hall when I was in the military. You see, a chow hall and restaurant don't have the same etiquette rules with regard to seating. In a chow hall, you sit where there is an available seat.

Akinoluna wrote on December 30, 2006 9:00 PM:

Yes, in a chowhall you sit where there's an available seat. But if somebody high-ranking is in that chowhall, people will go out of their way NOT to sit next to them, no matter who the heck it is. I find it hard to believe that if, say, was sitting in that chair, your average troops would be tripping over themselves to sit next to him.

This whole picture thing is stupid anyway. How do you know five people he was sitting with didn't just get up and leave because it was time for them to go back to work or something? Geez. Chowhalls are like fish tanks, blink once and the whole layout changes.

Oh..oh...wait...lookie there...a photo of him sitting next to troops has popped up!

Talk about being desperate for a story.

SouthernYankee wrote on December 31, 2006 2:27 PM:

Hey Machine Operator you are right I spelled a word wrong. Forgive me it was the southern part of me. I lived in the south so long I am beginning to think and sound like a southerner. I see a lot of misspellings in comments on the blogs but most people get the point. I don't hold that against anyone. With so much shit going on in this world all you can comment on is my spelling the word liar wrong. Boy Machine Operator you really live a sheltered life.

Bringing the Paine wrote on December 31, 2006 6:24 PM:

the military times reports that only 1/2 of our troops think success is possible.

Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, ac cording to the 2006 Military Times Poll.

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

The only thing that Malkin et al support about our troops is more body bags. I've been banned on just about all their sites for exposing the truth...

RAP wrote on January 2, 2007 4:49 PM:

Matthew P. says ". . . there is a reason that they volunteered for the military, and it isn't usually because they did really well on the s.a.t. there is no reason to join the armed forces these days other than a lack of viable career options or an insatiable bloodlust coupled with a complete ignorance of their role in the american empire project."

Have you forgotten the patriotic fervor and fear following the 9-11 attack? For so many of our boys, the call to arms was to protect their families and friends. A lot of our best and finest -- including our Marine Reservist son -- signed up for the military (over our objections) because they felt their country needed their help. Our son -- like many of the kids who signed up at that time -- was in college at the time and only dropped out because his Reserve training sessions interferred with his class schedule.

Matthew bleats on: "in fact, knowing the political beliefs and resultant voting patterns of these grunts, i would take it as a point of pride to be in such utter disagreement with them."

Our son campaigned for John Kerry in the 2004 election, as did I. How could you possibly know what these guys think and how they vote?

By the way, don't bother trying to apologize to our son. He was blown up in Iraq in 2005. Nothing will ever make his death OK, but he certainly didn't die for a**holes to make fun of him for trying to do the right thing.

SouthernYankee wrote on January 3, 2007 12:08 AM:

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